DNA collection by the D.E.C

[PilbaraPythons]

Here is a couple of pics of D.E.C officers taking close to 100 mouth swabs of my Woma’s and Black-headed pythons for DNA analysis. This is primarily to get a data base and to establish whether there has been legitimate bleedings. The Western Australian D.E.C currently lead the country in this field and this sort of DNA collection from breeders is now likely to be more common place. The extraction is a fairly un evasive though and over within 15 seconds with minimal stress to the reptiles. Their concerns I guess is that each year across Australia many hundreds of reptiles are been illegally collected and passed off as captive bred and this is fairly common knowledge. This sort of monitoring is important to the D.E.C in W.A should the day come when reptile keeping rules allow for keeper to keeper transfer which could potentially attract such illegal practises on a larger scale and perhaps place extra pressure all ready damaged habitat e.g. area’s of the wheat belt.

Has anyone outside of W.A had DNA taken from their reptiles for analysis?

Regards Dave

 

[PilbaraPythons]

pic 2

 

[JasonL]

Interesting Dave.... so if you catch any more do they have to get DNA before you sell them? why just Aspidites?

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Jason
No they haven't told me that this is their intention but any keeper in the state of W.A can be made to supply DNA from any of their reptiles as it is written in the regulations. Why they were interested in my Aspidites only, I am not too sure but they made the statement a week ago that I was the only person in W.A to ever breed Black-headed pythons, which I find extremely hard to believe.
I was also asked whether I had removed gravid reptiles from the bush. This would indicate to me that they have doubts over my claims of past python clutches, I would like to add though that the DNA extraction this time around was not enforced and they made it very clear that if I refused to help that they would simply go away, but why make them come back with a warrant, which would be very likely.
In their conversation they did say that they intended to help bring up to speed and share their advanced techniques with all other wildlife departments around the country. I would expect that in the near future DNA extraction will be common place everywhere.

 

[Waterrat]

This is interesting and slightly disturbing.
The DNA will be extracted by Government Officers, stored at Gov. offices, handed over to a molecular lab by Gov. Officers and the results will be forwarded to Gov. Officers.
Do we trust our politicians and Government Departments so much?
And, it's not only about the trust. Some DNA analysis are performed outside Australia where the chanced of muddling up the samples is a real possibility. Part of the mDNA process done on my snakes was done in China.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

It sounds like the W.A D.E.C has a very expensive setup here and they have a biologist doing this stuff full time. Like I mentioned before, they said that they were years a head of everybody is this country so maybe interstate samples will end up sent to this particular laboratory in W.A?
Some of the pygmy python breeders out there may get a little nervous I would think.

 

[moosenoose]

I hope they are washing their hands and not visiting 5 keepers a day doing this. Imagine the potential quarantine risk this sort of thing poses!

 

[JasonL]

I hope they are washing their hands and not visiting 5 keepers a day doing this. Imagine the potential quarantine risk this sort of thing poses!

Nah, there just putting the wind up Dave, they threw all the swabs in the bin ten minutes later and were down the pub for a counter lunch and a laugh.....

 

[gycho]

I think if they done this all over australia it would wean out the wannabe snake breeders and obviously see weather the snakes we biginers are buying are the real deal
And not mutaions that look like the real deal

I think its a good idea and i would also think they would know about the quarentine risk and act as safely as possible with the proper techneques on handling the different animals

 

[Radar]

If they are outsourcing to the labs in China and a few of the other Asian countries (with 'crazy clarks' high output rubbish quality genetic work) there is a distinct possibility of a stuff up occuring, it's already happened to me with about 400 genetic samples - wrong primers built off the design I sent them (wrong by 3 bases), and it all goes downhill after that....

Some of the pygmy python breeders out there may get a little nervous I would think.

I can think of some GTP breeders that would be a touch nervous.... >.>

 

[CodeRed]

I think many "breeders" out there would have poopies in their pants right about now

 

[moosenoose]

I think its a good idea and i would also think they would know about the quarentine risk and act as safely as possible with the proper techneques on handling the different animals

I like playing the devils advocate on this So yeah, like when they get home they'd make sure they washed their hands before touching their own animals. There’s certainly not much of an opportunity or recourse for action should an introduced virus wipe out three quarters of someone’s collection, simply because Officer Smith forgot to wash his grubby hands! No wonder OPMV and a host of other viruses are rampant these days. Such a dirty skanky little community! :lol:

Sdaji will have a fit when he reads about this! :lol:

 

[gycho]

I like playing the devils advocate on this So yeah, like when they get home they'd make sure they washed their hands before touching their own animals. There’s certainly not much of an opportunity or recourse for action should an introduced virus wipe out three quarters of someone’s collection, simply because Officer Smith forgot to wash his grubby hands! No wonder OPMV and a host of other viruses are rampant these days. Such a dirty skanky little community! :lol:

Sdaji will have a fit when he reads about this! :lol:

well that can be up to the breeder or keeper aswell i know of small breeders that are local to me and you cant step within 10 meters of their herp room without getting (probably the wrong word for this)decontaminated by insectacides baterial disifectant and if you smell like you have something on you forget about coming in lol

 

[angieb]

they'd have good reason... it sets up the reptile industry really by dna testing animals it means they just can't b replace by one from the wild. once a dna test of is aquired... they can tie it in with our log books and stop a black market. Reptiles will also hold there value for breeders.... i mean really Dave u can prove your blood line right back to this moment... is Totally awesome!

what u reckon?

 

[Waterrat]

It would be interesting to know what are their objectives. Collecting DNA samples is one thing but what next? Would they be testing for relatedness between parents and progeny, siblings, etc.? Or the geographical origins of the specimens? I doubt they could pull the later. They would need pretty extensive DNA library first.
As to mutations and crosses, I don't think they would even look that way. I feel the technology is not quite there yet to pinpoint e.g. the progeny of native GTP crossed with PNG one.
Rednut, you sound like a geneticist, can you put all this into perspective?

 

[AndrewHenderson]

One good point to come from this is if a large collection was ever stolen and then later recovered in drib and drabs through seizures, perhaps the DNA collection taken could be used to prove the real owner of the snakes...like a reptile CSI haha....this in turn with a photograph of the snake and it's patterning would almost make 100% proof it is yours.

Also if you had one escape and it was later found and handed in due to it not being native to the area they could also use this to find the owner, possibly if they had the time anyway....

Andrew

 

[Waterrat]

One good point to come from this is if a large collection was ever stolen and then later recovered in drib and drabs through seizures, perhaps the DNA collection taken could be used to prove the real owner of the snakes...like a reptile CSI haha....this in turn with a photograph of the snake and it's patterning would almost make 100% proof it is yours.

Also if you had one escape and it was later found and handed in due to it not being native to the area they could also use this to find the owner, possibly if they had the time anyway....

Andrew

Good point Andrew but it can be done simply and cheaply by implanting PIT tags into (larger) snakes. I don't mean subcutaneously, into the body cavity.

 

[carpetmuncher]

what benefit is taking dna if the animals aren't microchipped to relate dna results back to a specific animal.
maybe just putting the wind up you, especially since nsw npws in nsw have been collecting info and taking statements last week about all the wa stuff getting sent to nsw and the sunshine coast.

 

[Waterrat]

what benefit is taking dna if the animals aren't microchipped to relate dna results back to a specific animal.
maybe just putting the wind up you, especially since nsw npws in nsw have been collecting info and taking statements last week about all the wa stuff getting sent to nsw and the sunshine coast.

You don't need PIT tag to identify the origin of a DNA sample - you just take a swab from the animal and compare the two DNA profiles.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Carpetmuncher
Apparently they don’t need to know what particular python gave what DNA as according to them if they have swapped and collected ones entire collection the results will tell them if there are related animals e.g. father, mother and offspring.
I don't think statements from recipients that recieved reptiles of me are really of value , as most of those from memory were wild caught specimens.