DNA collection by the D.E.C

[PilbaraPythons]

I forgot to add that they also took swabs from my 5 Olive pythons as well, they were all wild collected.

 

[Waterrat]

Dave, did they take details like where and when you snakes were collected (for each specimen)?

 

[kupper]

there is still a multitude of holes in this practice , i for one take on board all of your discussions but there is still something lacking from there method which in the end will all come to tatters when it comes down to prosecution of the offender or tracing the offender for that matter

 

[chilli]

they might just be sampling to get the data for certain spp, so they have a base to work with down the line.

i'm surprised they didn't let pp know why they were doing it.

it was said that they are empowered by the regs to do it, anyone have a link, i can't find it.

i doubt that they have been lab trained, and if that was the case, using the data for any subsequent prosection would be rejected by most courts, although some, especially NT, accept a very low standard of proof.

 

[Waterrat]

Spot on!
I would like to see a scientist who analysed the DNA and interpreted the results in a witness box in court when asked: "is your DNA evidence conclusive?" I think there would be some head scratching and moaning.

 

[Bushfire]

As Dave said in his original post, Their concerns I guess is that each year across Australia many hundreds of reptiles are been illegally collected and passed off as captive bred and this is fairly common knowledge. <----basically saying the have bred within their collection but actually catching wild reptiles and passing them off as captive bred.


Andrew

That is a standard response just like when they say "we are here to do a general inspection". They never do a "general inspection" there is always a trigger that causes the inspection. They probably thought Dave was ripping them off in royalties so that triggered the inspection and the testing in an attempt to prove he did. When the test comes back proving Dave hadn't you probably wont hear anything more about it, like magic the 'project' will disappear.

It may will be common knowledge but the departments would need a massive boost in funding and increase in resources to rein it in. This is at a time when the government wants its departments running off next to nothing and making a profit. The project would be just too big for them to handle especially when as WC is allowed, new stock continuously coming in would be a nightmare.

 

[junglepython2]

they might just be sampling to get the data for certain spp, so they have a base to work with down the line.
.

I think this is much more likely....

 

[PilbaraPythons]

The main reason for the inspection was one of connivance I think. The D.E.C were apparently were in Port Hedland for several days secretly anyway, doing inspections and a seizure that went down in Port Hedland involving allegedly about 80 reptiles.
I don't have any details yet as the D.E.C aren’t at liberty to discuss this with me (not that they would anyway) but a Police contact of mine said as much, yesterday.

 

[baxtor]

The main reason for the inspection was one of connivance I think. The D.E.C were apparently were in Port Hedland for several days secretly anyway, doing inspections and a seizure that went down in Port Hedland involving allegedly about 80 reptiles.
I don't have any details yet as the D.E.C aren’t at liberty to discuss this with me (not that they would anyway) but a Police contact of mine said as much, yesterday.

Was that "connivance" or did you mean "convenience"
The first one fits right in with Government Dept's but I get the feeling you meant the second.

 

[longqi]

If only they would test all the so called "local" GTPs that are floating around as well

I microchip the majority of my snakes

Microchipping and or DNA will eventually help eradicate cowboys from the industry

 

[dottyback]

i'm surprised they let their photos be taken and published on the web, especially since their melons look like dropped pies.

hey pilbara, did they ask you about perthensis and depressa, as that seems to be what's getting them all excited.

Those 3 are a pretty bunch compared to gremlins in Victoria!

This is an excellent read, thanks Pilbarrapythons for posting it up!

Like most people here proberly think so much more could be done for herp related conservation than taking swabs and testing DNA..espcially as the price on most species have dropped dramatically in the last 24 months..

 

[kupper]

Yeah I could think of more colorful words to use to discribe them

 

[PilbaraPythons]

baxtor
I meant convenience, I often wreck my posts by terrible spelling and bad grammar but I am slowly getting better.

 

[AndrewHenderson]

although using connivance did make you sound highly intelligent for a second there dave...maybe you are smarter than you think haha...

Connivance - Connivance is the act of conniving or conspiring, especially with the knowledge of and active or passive consent to wrongdoing or a twist in truth to make something appear as something it is not.


Andrew

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Sorry my mistake, I really meant that, am I still intelligent ???

 

[AndrewHenderson]

Now the DEC will hammer you next time, accusing them of connivance...tsk tsk tsk...

 

[carpetmuncher]

any news on the seizure, it's unusual for the dec not to have a press release within an hour or two stating that it was several hundred thousand dollars worth of animals on the black market.

 

[Mr.James]

NSW licensing should be focusing on sorting out there prehistoric paperwork they never seem to get on top of. We pay our fee's & the service is provided is very poor, import and export permits take weeks to organise! I've ordered a new record book twice and still nothing!

DNA testing....WA you can keep that! They can't even get the basics right around here...

 

[Waterrat]

NSW licensing should be focusing on sorting out there prehistoric paperwork they never seem to get on top of. We pay our fee's & the service is provided is very poor, import and export permits take weeks to organise! I've ordered a new record book twice and still nothing!

DNA testing....WA you can keep that! They can't even get the basics right around here...

No one on this forum (or any other) is going to help the situation - write to Peter Gareth, your MP, the Minister for Parks & Wildlife in your state and the Director of your fauna authority department. Lobby with your politicians, write 'letters to the editor' in your local newspaper.
Oh, we don't want to get on the wrong side of the bureaucrats, I forgot.

 

[Sdaji]

Why??????? :lol: I think you already partially answered my question yourself.

I think the main question that needs to be answered is WHY they are doing this? My personal opinion is that "we're" an easy target! They just look at their online records and check who's got what. Those people who aren't doing the right thing and who aren't registered won't get this interference. Does anyone actually think the latter will get checked first??....nope, of course not! We're soft targets for a bunch of "softies"!!!

If these bodies start targeting people who are flaunting the law and admitting they are actively killing Aussie natives maybe I'd have a little more respect for them. Right now, I don't want to say how I'm thinking. Personally I've got doubts on the reasoning behind it. Of course it'll all be financial! Everything comes back to money! Conservation of these animals would be something along the lines of public education. Something I have seen NOTHING OF!

While I agree that if they are using DNA technology to regulate licensed keepers they are spending a massive amount of resources to do a very small amount of good by having a small amount of impact on the wrongdoings of the people who most closely follow the laws, while ignoring the bigger issues where more good could be done with less money and effort, I'm not sure why you said "Sdaji will have a fit". Other than my background in genetics and perhaps my OCD when it comes to quarantine, I don't see how this issue relates to me more than anyone else. My knowledge of genetics makes me more interested than most and I understand it more, my concerns about quarantine are significant but hopefully not unusual, but that won't make me fit and I'm otherwise just another member of the crowd which wants to keep snakes within the law.

I do agree with you, they're probably going after licensed keepers because it is easy for them to do it. We all put our names down and sign contracts allowing them access to our animals and facilities - we are the people who willingly allow ourselves to be regulated. As I said, it concerns me that this may be an incentive to push even more people to remain unlicensed. I would be sad if we saw more people going underground in order to remain unknown and unregulated by the authorities. It would cost much less money to go after unlicensed keepers, but perhaps they are concerned about their personal safety if they try to carry out effective busts, and perhaps with some justification. I don't think there is any point trying to prosecute people who kill wild snakes. As much as it would be nice if people would leave wild snakes to live, much of the wider community just isn't ready to be forced into it, and you could never convict anyone because if it went to court they would say they feared for their lives. The only way you could convict a snake killer would be if they admitted to it without realising they had broken the law, but if you then prosecuted there would be a backlash from the community who would seek to kill snakes and then say "Oh, I feared for my life, uh huh, I honestly thought I was in danger". Education of the public would be more effective, I think at this stage it would be best to encourage the public not to kill snakes rather than a futile attempt to enforce it. They could either point out that trying to kill snakes is often more dangerous than leaving them alone, or they could even have a go at putting a "If you're really tough you'll be happy to let a live snake go on living" type spin on things, making it look cowardly to kill a snake. To carry out significant DNA tests across Australia would cost millions of dollars. Imagine if they put millions of dollars into a "Don't kill snakes" publicity campaign! Of course, it won't happen, because the moment they tell people not to kill snakes someone will get bitten and say that if they'd killed the snake the bite wouldn't have occurred, and they'll sue the government (despite the fact that they will probably have been bitten when trying to kill the snake anyway).

Aside from whether or not they should be doing it, I can't understand why they would want to be taking DNA samples from wild caught Olive Pythons. What are they trying to achieve there? The whole thing puzzles me given that the DNA testing is so expensive, and they're working on snakes which are now so cheap that some legitimate keepers have already stopped bothering to breed.

Dave: Were the wildlife staff friendly about things? Did you have a chat about what they were trying to do? Or was it more a case of "Stand aside and let us do what we want to do. You stay quiet while we do it"? Regardless of whether or not it's a good use of money, I would be very interested to know what they're doing and what genetic techniques they're using.

Has anyone else had DNA taken from their reptiles?