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Snowman
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Hahaha. I thought it was just a picture. Very funny video!
Do you eat Meat or Dairy - if so why?
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andynic07
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I can't go past a good goat curry and even became quite partial to mud crab curry whilst in Fiji.
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Snowman
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Some of the best curry I've had was in Fiji. Yep mud crab is amazing!
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I could live entirely on sea food. I love baby octopus too.
Crumbed lambs brains, ox tongue,
ox tail. All those weird things from other cultures get my vote.
Umbral
Very Well-Known Member
I make lambs neck or oxtail stew quite often during winter and it's fantastic! It used to be about $2 a kilo and now people have worked out its a really good cut of meat for stews.
With curries mutton works really well, much better than lamb and goat is good too. If I was stranded on an island and had to pick and animal and only eat meat from that animal I would choose pork.
I do like veggies and salad but I enjoy them with my meat.
With curries mutton works really well, much better than lamb and goat is good too. If I was stranded on an island and had to pick and animal and only eat meat from that animal I would choose pork.
I do like veggies and salad but I enjoy them with my meat.
I can clear this up quite easily for you. Livestock produces more carbon dioxide equivalents then all of the cars on the roads. This is a great quote from the senior UN food and agricultural official 'livestock are one of the most significant contributors to todays most serious environmental problems'.
-Clearing ecosystems for raising cattle
-clearing ecosystems for raising grains to feed cattle
-increased pesticide and fertilizer use with grains to feed cattle
-increased soil depletion with grains to feed cattle
- METHANE emitted into our atmosphere. (already quoted the numbers, go back and check)
Just because you care about the environment and dont actually directly harm it doesnt mean you are. Unless you take your car off the road plus some extra credit you are doing more to damage our world then a car driving laptop using vegan.
Of course its great if you do care about the environment but i find it hard to be able to call yourself an 'environmentalist' while still contributing to a major cause of environmental degradation that is so easy to eliminate from your diet and lifestyle.
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The china study was just one study of the many i quoted and mentioned. Please produce some reputable backlash to the rest of the current and peer reviewed studies that prove my point.
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most land used for cattle currently cannot support crops
if Australia went vegan tomorrow all animals would be destroyed as to expensive to keep alive
the majority of farm land would be useless
we would need to clear rainforests etc to produce enough vegan crops for everyone to survive
i went vego for 6 months and ate nothing but veggie pizza wasnt half bad
if Australia went vegan tomorrow all animals would be destroyed as to expensive to keep alive
the majority of farm land would be useless
we would need to clear rainforests etc to produce enough vegan crops for everyone to survive
i went vego for 6 months and ate nothing but veggie pizza wasnt half bad
As i said earlier, 70% of our current grain stocks go towards feeding livestock. More food goes into the livestock then comes out ( its about 5-6kg of grain per kg of meat). If we used this agricultural land to feed ourselves it would be significantly more sustainable.
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
To quote the Oxford dictionary "Environmentalist : A person who is concerned about protecting the environment" If you look up a list of famous and notable environmentalists you who have done great things for the environment you will find that there are quite a few eat meat. If you would like to twist the definition around to support your crusade and insult a number of people who have done a lot more for the environment than you will ever do plus belittle all of the people that are doing their little bit to satisfy your vegan argument then who am I to disagree. In my books it isn't about having a tally on who is doing the most for the environment but brought up your point about being hypocritical. I did not deem someone hypocritical for polluting in some ways like eating meat and still trying to do something good for the environment but merely pointed out your own inconsistencies. I for one feel that my body needs the nutrients , vitamins and minerals that meat provide me and will put those needs above the environment and will not be made to feel bad for my choice. I have not tried to make anyone who chooses no meat feel bad for their choice because it is their choice for their reasons. It has been the non meat eaters that have thrown "it causes cancer" or "it is bad for the environment" at the meat eaters and then accused the meat eaters of becoming aggressive.
as said land is not suitable to feed humans...growing livestock feed is a different matter...
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Jaz if we all stop eating meat we will have to grow more fruit and veg and thats going to lead to soil depletion and land clearing and more pesticide and fertiliser use, whats the difference? Also bk201 was trying to say the land used for growing grain is not going to be suitable for growing fruit and veg so we would have to clear more land in more sensitive ecosystems to increase production of vegan crops. And considering the land used for growing grain has already been cleared you would actually do more harm by not utilising the already cleared land.
The land used to grow grain can support a number of different crop options, especially with increased legume production which improves soils. This is 70% of our grain soils, a massive amount! Even if some soils are unsuitable the majority will be and can produce the legumes and vegetables necessary. I have been lucky enough to study land use and management, agriculture and soil science through university.
People already eat their share of fruit, i feel a lack of meat wont significantly increase this demand.
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Yes we have said those things because they are true. Read the studies and points i have made previously. Meat eaters have posted their own arguments in defense, it works both ways.
I just feel if i can easily and effectively make a positive contribution to the environment then why not do it? But as you said, it is your choice to continue negatively affecting the world. I can accept this, however, i cannot respect it when it harms us all. I for one enjoy the GBR and wildlife =]
Its because of this that i have actually completed my bachelor of environmental science and hope to have a career in conservation. I think its a little rude to make massive assumptions about a person.
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princessparrot
Very Well-Known Member
Jazzz, I'm still with u
Illium
Active Member
The whole argument for and against for the large part is futile, if anything people will defend their position more strongly as soon as they themselves see cracking in their own arguments and "scientific evidence".
The most likely reason humans evolved to consume meat is to take advantage of not being either a specialised predator or herbivore. We can adjust to our environment.
In saying that meat will almost always provide more amino acids, fats and protein then any plant based food source per kilo. Also, it has higher calorie intake meaning in our path of evolution it was the safer bet for sustenance.
More than any other reason I would say people eat meat because of a deep seated urge for animal based protein and the other benefits meat has to offer, it is part of our genetic make up.
Sure, plant based product Is also full of nutrition that you cannot get from meat but it is always a balance.
Like anyone however you will have people who choose to live a different way and believe different things being music, movie taste, food choices, sexuality, pet preferences, religion etc. and almost all people will try to get non agreeing people around to their point of view.
The arguments of changing grazing lands to crop fields again can be quite dynamic, you would also have to account for irrigation, salinity increase, the use of fertilizers and the impact that will have, even down to an increase of particular pests, you are always changing a balance.
My belief is the repercussions of converting existing land used for livestock into agriculture in the long run could prove just as detrimental to the environment.
One possible solution that has been thrown around for years is farming of kangaroos, they will graze on native grass lands, reduce soil erosion and not require much modification to current set up. The plus is a high quality great tasting animal protein much healthier than most other products
I might also mention that placing health in quotation marks in the original post is an instant identification of an agenda in place and was bounce to stir up a response, might as well have made the title "meat, and how you are misguided to think it good for you"
The most likely reason humans evolved to consume meat is to take advantage of not being either a specialised predator or herbivore. We can adjust to our environment.
In saying that meat will almost always provide more amino acids, fats and protein then any plant based food source per kilo. Also, it has higher calorie intake meaning in our path of evolution it was the safer bet for sustenance.
More than any other reason I would say people eat meat because of a deep seated urge for animal based protein and the other benefits meat has to offer, it is part of our genetic make up.
Sure, plant based product Is also full of nutrition that you cannot get from meat but it is always a balance.
Like anyone however you will have people who choose to live a different way and believe different things being music, movie taste, food choices, sexuality, pet preferences, religion etc. and almost all people will try to get non agreeing people around to their point of view.
The arguments of changing grazing lands to crop fields again can be quite dynamic, you would also have to account for irrigation, salinity increase, the use of fertilizers and the impact that will have, even down to an increase of particular pests, you are always changing a balance.
My belief is the repercussions of converting existing land used for livestock into agriculture in the long run could prove just as detrimental to the environment.
One possible solution that has been thrown around for years is farming of kangaroos, they will graze on native grass lands, reduce soil erosion and not require much modification to current set up. The plus is a high quality great tasting animal protein much healthier than most other products
I might also mention that placing health in quotation marks in the original post is an instant identification of an agenda in place and was bounce to stir up a response, might as well have made the title "meat, and how you are misguided to think it good for you"
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Flash1paul
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If we were meant to be vegitarians, then why did God make cows out of meat? :lol:
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
You have said those things to try and convert the meat eaters and I have stated that things that I believe to be true and we both have evidence to support our case but the big thing that sticks out to me and you have said it "Meat eaters have posted their own arguments in defence" we have to remember where this all started, it was a poll with thought provoking about what we eat and the meat eaters were drawn into a debate where the non meat eaters threw these facts out there telling us why our lifestyle is so bad which is completely off topic but seems to be where the thread was intended. If you notice these links from the non meat eaters came up quite quickly like they had them sitting there waiting for this discussion to head in the direction that it did and it actually took quite a few pages for for the meat eaters post any links after they had done some research to as you put it "defend themselves" . You say that you respect that I choose to continue "harm the world" but cannot respect my actions when it harms us all but you choose to believe that my harm affects us all but yours doesn't , what form of sustainable power source are you using or have you looked into using? You say that you have complected a bachelor of environmental science but I have always been under the impression that the main component of science in whatever form was facts and logic which I believe your argument is not based on and rather it is based on your feelings with a bit of fact to back up some of your claims.
disintegratus
Very Well-Known Member
I must admit, I'm with the anti-vegetarianists on this one. Meat's awesome. Cows are my favourite.
However I admit that either way, there is a huge, unsupportable negative impact on the environment, both local and global.
All the studies and articles that I have read point to only one sustainable solution: SOYLENT GREEN*...
*I have not, nor am I likely to ever, read any studies supporting the consumption of people meat.
However I admit that either way, there is a huge, unsupportable negative impact on the environment, both local and global.
All the studies and articles that I have read point to only one sustainable solution: SOYLENT GREEN*...
*I have not, nor am I likely to ever, read any studies supporting the consumption of people meat.
jack
Very Well-Known Member
do vegans taste different to omnivorous humans?
back on topic, thankyou for answering my query as to why the word 'health' was in inverted commas, and now thank you for answering my query as to what you feed your pets.
i rest my case
back on topic, thankyou for answering my query as to why the word 'health' was in inverted commas, and now thank you for answering my query as to what you feed your pets.
i rest my case
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andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
I am not sure what either taste like but think I would draw the line at human meat consumption.lol
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Umbral
Very Well-Known Member
I like it when people say they only eat organic. Show me a vegetable that isn't made of organic material lol.
The food to growth ratio that's being quoted is a clear misrepresentation of reality. The 6-7kg of wheat/kg meat represents a very small portion of the meat industry and relates solely to American feedlots and was settled upon to allow the continued trade of futures in the American markets.
There is simply not enough grain on this planet to sustain those levels. The reality is that most cattle are grown on a rotational basis on pasture that is fertilised by the grazing of cattle providing rich organic fertilisers. The theory of feedlot rearing was designed to maximise economic returns for producers and reduce the cost at the retail end.
South Africa is leading the charge on reducing the environmental impacts of cattle by using the by products of feedlot cattle for power generation. A sensible and practical greener future initiative.
Many leading meat producers are also far more environment aware than the picture being painted here. Many billions of dollars are being invested in environmental impact intervention. When it comes to sustainable food production in an environmental way, both forms of agricultureare dependant on the other.
Simply put, organic cereal/vegetable farming is impossible without animal farming. Because animal products (manure) are being used in the production chain, does this make the vegan movement defunct?
There is simply not enough grain on this planet to sustain those levels. The reality is that most cattle are grown on a rotational basis on pasture that is fertilised by the grazing of cattle providing rich organic fertilisers. The theory of feedlot rearing was designed to maximise economic returns for producers and reduce the cost at the retail end.
South Africa is leading the charge on reducing the environmental impacts of cattle by using the by products of feedlot cattle for power generation. A sensible and practical greener future initiative.
Many leading meat producers are also far more environment aware than the picture being painted here. Many billions of dollars are being invested in environmental impact intervention. When it comes to sustainable food production in an environmental way, both forms of agricultureare dependant on the other.
Simply put, organic cereal/vegetable farming is impossible without animal farming. Because animal products (manure) are being used in the production chain, does this make the vegan movement defunct?
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