Do you eat Meat or Dairy - if so why?

[Mighty_Moose]

It is amazing how defensive you all are?!
Although I am not really surprised at the reception I have received, ppl seem to be very set in their ways & very closed minded & defensive about their meat.

Is it really "meat eaters" who seem to be close minded? That is one of the prime "quotes" used by vegans and religious people alike. "You don't agree with me, you must be closed minded"

As for saying that we're not designed like other meat eaters etc and we're not designed to eat meat... Explain what that good ol' acid in our stomachs is designed for and in what other animals does it occur?

Omnivorous for a reason.

 

[Jazzz]

Ive been a vegetarian for 7 years, and have seriously cut back on dairy in the last year. I take no supplements and donate blood every 3 months so have high iron levels.

Im vegetarian for the cruelty and for the environment. I find it extremely hypocritical to call yourself an environmentalist and still support the meat trade.

Pork and bacon for me is especially bad, sow stalls and the factory farming practices make me feel ill. These animals are as smart as a 3yr old child, much smarter then your dogs.

If anyone thinks meat is healthier please read 'the china study' the most comprehensive lifestyle study ever conducted. Should answer a few questions =]

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Heres some reputable sources

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

the basics - A total of 2,939 incident cancer cases were identified. The multivariate HR of overall cancer risk among vegetarians compared with non-vegetarians was statistically significant [HR, 0.92; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.85-0.99] for both genders combined. Also, a statistically significant association was found between vegetarian diet and cancers of the gastrointestinal tract (HR, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.63-0.90). When analyzing the association of specific vegetarian dietary patterns, vegan diets showed statistically significant protection for overall cancer incidence (HR, 0.84; 95% CI, 0.72-0.99) in both genders combined and for female-specific cancers (HR, 0.66; 95% CI, 0.47-0.92). Lacto-ovo-vegetarians appeared to be associated with decreased risk of cancers of the gastrointestinal system (HR, 0.75; 95% CI, 0.60-0.92).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21983060

Participants were 15,200 men and 26,187 women (17.3% Blacks) across the U.S. and Canada who were free of diabetes and who provided demographic, anthropometric, lifestyle and dietary data. Participants were grouped as vegan, lacto ovo vegetarian, pesco vegetarian, semi-vegetarian or non-vegetarian (reference group). A follow-up questionnaire after two years elicited information on the development of diabetes. Cases of diabetes developed in 0.54% of vegans, 1.08% of lacto ovo vegetarians, 1.29% of pesco vegetarians, 0.92% of semi-vegetarians and 2.12% of non-vegetarians. Blacks had an increased risk compared to non-Blacks (odds ratio [OR] 1.364; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.093-1.702). In multiple logistic regression analysis controlling for age, gender, education, income, television watching, physical activity, sleep, alcohol use, smoking and BMI, vegans (OR 0.381; 95% CI 0.236-0.617), lacto ovo vegetarians (OR 0.618; 95% CI 0.503-0.760) and semi-vegetarians (OR 0.486, 95% CI 0.312-0.755) had a lower risk of diabetes than non-vegetarians. In non-Blacks vegan, lacto ovo and semi-vegetarian diets were protective against diabetes (OR 0.429, 95% CI 0.249-0.740; OR 0.684, 95% CI 0.542-0.862; OR 0.501, 95% CI 0.303-0.827); among Blacks vegan and lacto ovo vegetarian diets were protective (OR 0.304, 95% CI 0.110-0.842; OR 0.472, 95% CI 0.270-0.825). These associations were strengthened when BMI was removed from the analyses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23836264

There were 2570 deaths among 73,308 participants during a mean follow-up time of 5.79 years. The mortality rate was 6.05 (95% CI, 5.82-6.29) deaths per 1000 person-years. The adjusted hazard ratio (HR) for all-cause mortality in all vegetarians combined vs nonvegetarians was 0.88 (95% CI, 0.80-0.97). The adjusted HR for all-cause mortality in vegans was 0.85 (95% CI, 0.73-1.01); in lacto-ovo-vegetarians, 0.91 (95% CI, 0.82-1.00); in pesco-vegetarians, 0.81 (95% CI, 0.69-0.94); and in semi-vegetarians, 0.92 (95% CI, 0.75-1.13) compared with nonvegetarians. Significant associations with vegetarian diets were detected for cardiovascular mortality, noncardiovascular noncancer mortality, renal mortality, and endocrine mortality. Associations in men were larger and more often significant than were those in women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19351712

Mean BMI was lowest in vegans (23.6 kg/m(2)) and incrementally higher in lacto-ovo vegetarians (25.7 kg/m(2)), pesco-vegetarians (26.3 kg/m(2)), semi-vegetarians (27.3 kg/m(2)), and nonvegetarians (28.8 kg/m(2)). Prevalence of type 2 diabetes increased from 2.9% in vegans to 7.6% in nonvegetarians; the prevalence was intermediate in participants consuming lacto-ovo (3.2%), pesco (4.8%), or semi-vegetarian (6.1%) diets. After adjustment for age, sex, ethnicity, education, income, physical activity, television watching, sleep habits, alcohol use, and BMI, vegans (OR 0.51 [95% CI 0.40-0.66]), lacto-ovo vegetarians (0.54 [0.49-0.60]), pesco-vegetarians (0.70 [0.61-0.80]), and semi-vegetarians (0.76 [0.65-0.90]) had a lower risk of type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians.

literally searched 'vegetarian' in pubmed, the US national institute of healths journal article library. These were the first 4 articles, all peer reviewed and published findings.

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We are fruitivores or whatever its called, if we were vegetarians we would not be where we are today. We eat meat because we cover so many different parts of this planet and its the only way to sustain a population of our size and also because it allows us to live in areas that don't support the diet we evolved with. If we all lived like you then we wouldn't have the resources to sustain our population.

Also I could cut out meat and dairy and animal products from my diet but I have noticed that every vegitarian I have met is skinny and judgemental and they all act superior to meat eating people and I would never want to be like that. You say you just want to understand why people eat meat but your intentions and your attitude is obvious and I think you should keep your diet to yourself and stop worrying about other people and what they eat. After all if you did turn us all vegetarian you are going to be paying a fortune for your tofu.

Actually the opposite is true. Heres some quick stats -

• the production of 1 kg wheat costs 1,300 L water
• the production of 1 kg broken rice costs 3,400 L water
• the production of 1 kg eggs costs 3,300 L water
• the production of 1 kg beef costs 15,000 L water

70% of our grain stocks in Australia go towards feeding livestock. Every Kg of meat is around 6kg of grain.

Also the Co2 impacts, quickly. Per Kg of beef you emit 13,300g Carbon dioxide equivalents, as it actually produces methane which is 20 times worse. For a fruit is is 300-550g of equivalents.

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The thing is most people here believe in science. We believe in evolution and fact. So religion and fads that are not part of fact but rather fiction don't go will with this group in general.
We like facts and the facts have been mentioned. But you appear to closed minded to listen to them. It reminds my of the debates about creation vs evolution. We evolved eating meat and it is an important part of our genetic make up. This is the main reason we eat meat if you are truly interested in why we eat meat.

In much the same vain religious people always want to be able to "share" their new found love and joy for their lifestyle and are frustrated when people do not want to hear their message. It's not that people are closed mind as you are labeling them. It's that they have decided for themselves how to live.

We evolved hunting and gathering. We ate small portions of meat and expended a lot of energy hunting it. Also our average lifespan was 25...
As a species we are evolving, we no longer need meat to survive and can live perfectly healthily on a plant based diet. I like to also think we are evolving emotionally with our greater understanding of animals and the environment, however, this thread has made me doubt that greatly.

The younger generation seems to be catching on to this concept though. More and more people are realising that its unnecessary and that one little bite of food isnt worth an animals life.

 

[thomasssss]

would it be acceptable if i started a poll of my own , i will title it why dont you eat nothing but veges , then i will have a number of chocies , health and tradition being some of those , then at the end i will throw in a sneaky little question thats designed to open up an opportunity for me to rave on about how great meat is

that question will be " why dont you become a vegan " for me its health reasons"

would that be acceptable? if not then why is this , my threads only this one in reverse

 

[Jazzz]

would it be acceptable if i started a poll of my own , i will title it why dont you eat nothing but veges , then i will have a number of chocies , health and tradition being some of those , then at the end i will throw in a sneaky little question thats designed to open up an opportunity for me to rave on about how great meat is

that question will be " why dont you become a vegan " for me its health reasons"

would that be acceptable? if not then why is this , my threads only this one in reverse

I think its great to have a debate once in a while. Exchange ideas, clear up a lot of misconceptions, as i have done above.

Its when people start to be disrespectful about a topic a lot of people actually greatly care for that it becomes an issue.

 

[justin91]

I think its great to have a debate once in a while. Exchange ideas, clear up a lot of misconceptions, as i have done above.

Its when people start to be disrespectful about a topic a lot of people actually greatly care for that it becomes an issue.
.

I'm a meat eaters and I couldn't said it any better.. I've noticed a lot more hatred on this thread from meat eaters then vegans or vegies

 

[Stuart]

Please play nice, any further arguments or personal attacks will be met with an infraction and deletion

Thread reopened.

 

[andynic07]

I am a meat eater and eat meat in moderation, I eat it for the flavour and the nutrients it gives me. It is also a tradition in my family as long as I can remember. I would like to question that someone can say that an environmentalist can find it hypocritical that people care about the environment because they eat meat whilst using power on a computer on a discussion about the subject and whilst using power to keep a snake just for self pleasure and then accuse others of personal attacks. I think that I am an environmentalist to some degree because I care for the environment and try to make it better in some way but would not think to call those who care about the environment but do less than I a hypocrite, instead I would appreciate their effort and try to encourage more.

 

[Smithers]

Maybe asking a nutritionists will get the most factual answer....the pyramid of daily recommended foods suggests for the maximum benefit to the body is to eat meat and drink milk along with the others listed.

 

[Newhere]

Ok the production of wheat is a little bit less than eggs, now can I have some stats on the production of fruit and veg because if I was to cut out meat and dairy I would need more than just wheat. Also what are the impacts to the land by large scale fruit and veg production compared to meat?

 

[phatty]

its funny when people talk about cruelty to animals we are animals our selves. have you ever seen a lion take down a gazelle. I eat meat and love it why substitute some thing we have been doing since the dorm of time.

 

[princessparrot]

Jazz, I'm with you with the cruelty and stuff. Always have been.

 

[The_Geeza]

All to there own.... English Sunday roast yummmmmy and never give away a good eye fillet... So I eat meat k so bite me

 

[Newhere]

Thats right phatty we are animals and anything we do to the environment is a part of our survival and to sustain the population we have and to enjoy a good quality of life, I'm sure animals don't worry about the environment before they fart or do things that are needed for them to survive and while we could do things better and reduce our impacts on the environment I don't think cutting out meat or dairy is a good idea at all.

Also you have to question if these people really do care about the environment considering they are on the internet (on a forum about keeping animals of all) and living in a house made of timber and obviously using power and creating the same carbon footprint as the rest of us.

 

[Tristan]

Catalyst: Lab Burger - ABC TV Science (10min)

that vid is about the development of lab produced meat, I'm just curious would any of the people who partake in eating flesh be willing to eat meat produced in a lab assuming that the lab product is comparable in taste\texture etc.

and would those who choose not to eat meat because of the cruelty to animal factor be willing to eat meat produced in a lab as it no longer has any impact on the well being of any animal other than yourself?

Edit* apologies i should have added my own opinion\answer.

as a meat eater i would not have any issues with eating lab produced meat providing it was of adequate taste and texture and of cause nutritional value.

 

[andynic07]

Catalyst: Lab Burger - ABC TV Science (10min)

that vid is about the development of lab produced meat, I'm just curious would any of the people who partake in eating flesh be willing to eat meat produced in a lab assuming that the lab product is comparable in taste\texture etc.

and would those who choose not to eat meat because of the cruelty to animal factor be willing to eat meat produced in a lab as it no longer has any impact on the well being of any animal other than yourself?

Good questions, I as a meat eater would be willing to give the idea a go but have not watched the video yet so hold the right to change my mind.

 

[princessparrot]

Catalyst: Lab Burger - ABC TV Science (10min)

that vid is about the development of lab produced meat, I'm just curious would any of the people who partake in eating flesh be willing to eat meat produced in a lab assuming that the lab product is comparable in taste\texture etc.

and would those who choose not to eat meat because of the cruelty to animal factor be willing to eat meat produced in a lab as it no longer has any impact on the well being of any animal other than yourself?

Edit* apologies i should have added my own opinion\answer.

as a meat eater i would not have any issues with eating lab produced meat providing it was of adequate taste and texture and of cause nutritional value.

I have tried fake meat but I couldn't stand the texture

 

[Tristan]

I have tried fake meat but I couldn't stand the texture

this is not fake meat were talking about, this is real meat grown in a lab.

ok if a 10min vid is to hard\long for some to watch ill give a quick text breakdown. (no this is not a snide comment, i understand some people don't have time\ability to play vids)

lab takes tissue sample from a cows butt, from that tissue sample extract stem cells.
put stem cells in fluid filled with yummy goodness for the cells, the cells replicate\grow (potential for replicating x50) = Tonnes of meat.
the cells grow and become muscle fibers, the muscles fibers join and become tissue, the muscle fibers are given electrical charge to cause the muscles to contract\relax (work out).
at the end you are left with what they hope is a copy of a rump steak or what ever.

 

[princessparrot]

this is not fake meat were talking about, this is real meat grown in a lab.

ok if a 10min vid is to hard\long for some to watch ill give a quick text breakdown. (no this is not a snide comment, i understand some people don't have time\ability to play vids)

lab takes tissue sample from a cows butt, from that tissue sample extract stem cells.
put stem cells in fluid filled with yummy goodness for the cells, the cells replicate\grow (potential for replicating x50) = Tonnes of meat.
the cells grow and become muscle fibers, the muscles fibers join and become tissue, the muscle fibers are given electrical charge to cause the muscles to contract\relax (work out).
at the end you are left with what they hope is a copy of a rump steak or what ever.

I still don't think I could eat it... Would make a good alternative for my sis though

 

[smileysnake]

i will just about eat anything as long as it tastes good. i have just recently tried chicken feet, my father being indian i have eaten ox tongue and my old man makes a great chicken giblet curry.....i would not know how to survive without meat.....and i love milk i have a big bowl of cereal every morning, love eggs fried scrambled omelettes hard boiled....

 

[princessparrot]

i will just about eat anything as long as it tastes good. i have just recently tried chicken feet, my father being indian i have eaten ox tongue and my old man makes a great chicken giblet curry.....i would not know how to survive without meat.....and i love milk i have a big bowl of cereal every morning, love eggs fried scrambled omelettes hard boiled....

Ox tongue?!?!?