Everyone Please read this

[thomasssss]

i'm sorry for your loss and as the people that are left behind it is always the hardest, i fully believe that suicide is the cheats and weak way out!!!! sorry if that offends some people but it is how i feel and i can never forgive the people that have done it, they feel **** and they feel the world is against them, poor me poor me! i have recently lost my 11 month old nephew that had the world against him, he was born missing 80% of his brain and there for was extremely disabled, he suffered continual fits and, couldnt not eat and had to be fed through a tube down his throat, could not control his core body temp and was on more drugs than a chemist has on there shelves, my brother and his wife could nt leave his side, someone had to be with him 24/7 as he could not swallow and would choke on his saliva anywhere up to 50 times a day so if they went to the toilet he would have to be there so they could watch him, he was air lifted to hospital more times than i can count, and my brother and his wife were told he would not live for long and had to make the heart breaking decision to put a "do not revieve" order on him so that the hospital didnt bring him back if he passed, now this beautiful little boy battled on for 11 months even though the world was against him and and bought light into the hearts of everyne that met him, the day before my brothers wedding day in march someone took their eye off him for a minute while setting up and when my brother loked at him he was blue and not moving because he had choked on his saliva, my brother grabbed him and he moved so he blew into his mouth and cleared his throat and he took a breath, he was then rushed to the royal childrens in melb where they were again told that he wouldnt make the night, but again he did, they organised a nurse from hospital to bring him out so he could be at their wedding, 45 mins before the wedding the nurse called us in and told us he was fading and wasnt going to make it and then she told us he was gone, watching my brother holding his dead baby boy screaming at hi to come back just long enough for his mummy to get there to say good bye is something that still haunts me today. But in the true spirit of this little soldier after a 5-10 mins he took anther breath and started breathing again, i reorganised the whole wedding service in about 5 mins and started it there and then so he could be apart of it, after the service he went back to hospital for another 3 days. my brother lives in northern nsw and returned home with his little boy. 1 month exactly before his 1st birthday i got the phone call saying he was not well. and not long after that i got the phone call to say he has finally passed but not without a fight. he had been declaired dead twice by a nurse that was at my brothers house the entire last day of his life and everytime his mummy would give him a kiss and tell him she loved him and he is now free the little bloke would come back for one last crack and finally after the 3rd time they were told he was gone his mummy got up without saying a word and walked out of the room so he could finally pass.

NOW TELL ME HOW BAD YOUR WORD IS, and that things are so bad you take your own life !!!! if anyone has the right to hate the world it is my brother and his wife after the 11 months they had while their son was alive and now to have to rebuild a life without him.

R.I.P Tyler James Stephens

sorry for y rant i get a bit emotional about this subject.

i do understand where your coming from mate , i had a very similar view at one point but id have to disagree with you now , i think elapid@ said it pretty good in the post above yours

and before you go thinking that i just dont understand or anything like that i do , when i was 16 i was driving to work on my L's with my dad in the passenger seat when he had a fatal heart attack , i wont get into it to much as its a bit personal but it was a traumatic experience for anyone to deal with but at 16 it was pretty hard to deal with

as i said i once shared your view in that its a cowards way out but something changed my view , people are affected by things in so many different ways and at times it can seem like ending it would just be better , you are not them you can not tell them what your feeling is worse and they cant do the same to you

 

[Bluetongue1]

BIGBANG,

Clearly you are still hurting immensely over the loss of your nephew. However, to draw any comparison between that and suicide is comparing chalk with cheese. They both involve the loss of a life and that is where the comparison begins and ends.

The attitude that you spelt out was that weak people do it to themselves and that it is cheating – I assume you mean there that have not got the guts to be responsible for their own problems? Clearly you hold them 100% for their actions as you said you can never forgive them.

My hope is that you never have child yourself that finds themselves in the high risk category for whatever reason. I wonder if you will echo the same sentiments when they have hanged themself?

The alternative is that you could try and educate your self as to what really happens, what the protective factors are, what the risk factors are and how you pick up the signs. You’ll be right mate and a cuddle around the shoulders is not going to cut it. There are many reasons why. It is not a simple decision that someone makes because they lack the nurries to face life. To accord blame in a broad sweeping all-inclusive no excuses statement defies common sense let alone the realities of what really transpires.

I don’t believe that for one moment I have changed your attitude. All I would ask is that you do a bit of reading on it for the possible potential benefit of those in your life who you love. It is something that affects all age groups andthat backgrouns information might be important one day.

Blue

 

[BIGBANG]

BIGBANG,

Clearly you are still hurting immensely over the loss of your nephew. However, to draw any comparison between that and suicide is comparing chalk with cheese. They both involve the loss of a life and that is where the comparison begins and ends.

The attitude that you spelt out was that weak people do it to themselves and that it is cheating – I assume you mean there that have not got the guts to be responsible for their own problems? Clearly you hold them 100% for their actions as you said you can never forgive them.

My hope is that you never have child yourself that finds themselves in the high risk category for whatever reason. I wonder if you will echo the same sentiments when they have hanged themself?

The alternative is that you could try and educate your self as to what really happens, what the protective factors are, what the risk factors are and how you pick up the signs. You’ll be right mate and a cuddle around the shoulders is not going to cut it. There are many reasons why. It is not a simple decision that someone makes because they lack the nurries to face life. To accord blame in a broad sweeping all-inclusive no excuses statement defies common sense let alone the realities of what really transpires.

I don’t believe that for one moment I have changed your attitude. All I would ask is that you do a bit of reading on it for the possible potential benefit of those in your life who you love. It is something that affects all age groups andthat backgrouns information might be important one day.

Blue

BLUE
usually i hold what you have to say in high regards and is very helpful, in saying that i disagree with you in this, yes i know the loss of my nephew is not the same as someone commiting suicide but that story although was a bit long winded was more to emphasis the terrible thing my brother and his wife went through everyday for a long time and they still manage to have a smile on their face. i would never forgive one of my kids( which i have 3) if they did that to themselves. yes i would be stricken with grief and guilt that i wasnt able to stop it but i would never forgive them and i stand behind that 100%, i have lost friends to suicide, and also have helped quiet alot of kids with depression and also my wife, i was also a peer educator and peer support leader when i was at high school, i was not one of the cool kids at school but i also wasnt one of the kids being picked on, throught the programs i was involved with during school and also the youth out reach programs we ran once i left school i know what kids go through, i know you are a school teacher so see things differently to how i see them, and i'm sorry if we have different opinions on this subject, i have had to deal with the families and loved ones of the people that have taken their own lives and seen first hand the hurt,sadness and above all guilt that they didnt know anything way wrong. i'm not going to turn this thread into and arguement with you blue i respect your knowledge for reptiles and the help you have given me too much to risk loosing any further help i may require, it is how i feel about suicide and anyone that thinks THEY will be better off dead. this is a very "iffy" subject and there are strong opinions on both.

 

[Bluetongue1]

If you don’t trust reading about things on the net, ask any Psychiatrist (a fully qualified GP who does another 5 years learning), a clinical psychologist (4 years study then 2 years practical placement) or a Mental Health Clinic or Facility. See if they reckon people who commit suicide are making a simple, selfish choice which can be corrected with a good kick in the backside….

F you tell me ahead of time it will make no difference to the way you feel, then clearly you are bigoted in this respect.

Blue

 

[BIGBANG]

Bigoted: utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. So your saying I'm bigoted because I have a differing opinion to yours? Even the dictionary says its hypocritical meaning, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Snowman]

Not sure a reptile forum is the place for such a personal subject.

 

[Bluetongue1]

There is nothing more to be said.

Blue

 

[Coppersimon]

I had the same view as bigbang in regards to this topic. Until a mate I grow up with took his own life. At the time I still thought it was selfish act until about 3 months later when we were asked by his family to read the letter he had left which they had only found it about a week beforehand. It explained why he had done what he had done and how he thought his family would genuinely be better off without him. This of course wasn't true but from the dark place he was in he could not see any light.
His family and we all still miss him but knowing he did it for his family as miss guided as it is gave them some piece of mind because in his mind he was truly sacrificing himself for the betterment of his family.

There is no one correct way to feel about this. Everyone is entitled to there own feelings and all we can do is respect their differing views.

 

[Renenet]

Coppersimon,

Your tragic experience illustrates perfectly what I was going to say. People in such dire mental straits suffer from distorted thinking, often genuinely believing that the world would be better off without them. For someone suffocating in severe depression, this makes total and complete sense. You feel worthless, to yourself and everyone around you. You're flat wrong, of course, but it takes time, support from others and effort on your part to realise that.

Family and friends cannot understand why their loved one did something so final and, from their perspective, hurtful. We loved him. He had so much to live for. Why did he do this? It doesn't make sense, and they experience the conflicting, painful emotions that you have described, and more.

For anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide, my condolences and I hope you have or will come to terms with it. For anyone suffering depression - from someone who has been there and is now happy and excited about life, I promise it gets better. The first thing to do is to tell someone. There are people who care about you. Find one of them and tell them you're struggling. If that's too difficult, see a GP. Call Lifeline. Access a counselling service. Say something, to someone who can help.

I'll say it again: life gets better. You want to be here to see it.

Ren

 

[Sleazy.P.Martini]

Not sure a reptile forum is the place for such a personal subject.

I get what you're saying. And i agree in this case, However... it surprises me how much people complain about this. Threads are even closed and deleted because "this is a reptile site, keep it on topic"... But if you read the title of the chit chat section it clearly states for random topics not to do with reptiles or the site.

 

[Snowman]

I was thinking more for keeping harmony on the site and not provoking people's personal and deep emotions.
I prefer uplifting topics in chit chat. All this thread has done is create angst amongst members. This isn't beyond blue after all.

- - - Updated - - -

I was thinking more for keeping harmony on the site and not provoking people's personal and deep emotions.
I prefer uplifting topics in chit chat. All this thread has done is create angst amongst members. This isn't beyond blue after all.

 

[Bluetongue1]

I realise your “All this thread has done” is a conscious over-statement to put emphasis on the negative outcome of generating angst. Whilst I agree that this is unfortunate and unwanted, it is a minor outcome amongst some very positive ones. I would consider helping those who have been affected by suicide come to a better understanding of why it can happen and why it is often so difficult to successfully intervene, to be an extremely important out come. A proper understanding reduces the guilt those left behind feel because they didn’t do more. That’s petty damn important too.

This is a difficult area but a very real part of life, with lots of differing opinions, far too many of which are not based on any knowledge of the facts. If it encourages people to find out some of those facts, then that is a very positive outcome.


Blue

P.S. While I am at fault for having generated a certain amount of the angst, I have done so for a reason. What I posted was not simply for one set of eyes. And if it challenged viewpoints and generated a strong response, then it has done its job.

 

[caliherp]

I was not going to bring this up as i dont tell alot of people about this. I have suffered with depression my whole life. No matter how bad it got the the things that kept me from pulling the plug were my animals that I was going to leeve behind, all the unfinished projects I wanted to do with them, my family, and knowing that I can and will make a difference in the world. I truly think I aswell as everyone else are on this earth for a reason. Although it may not always be clear, the best part about life is figuring out that reason.

 

[Rach85]

The reason I started this thread is because, just maybe, I could make someone think twice about doing it. I'm sorry to have bought up so much emotion, but I should have expected it I guess, its such an emotional topic. But if one person reads this, and realises its not the right way to solve whatever is going on for them, then its worth it.
And I know what its like, i've been there. But I learned to become stronger in myself, and I wanted to let as many people as possible know that, if you feel like that, you will be ok, and you're not alone.

 

[pythrulz]

Unfornatly there are to many people that take there own life its very sad and at that time they dont relise that life can get better all they need is to reveive hope and sometimes they dont tell anyone there problems its also a very selfise act all they need do is share there problems with a caring person

 

[littlemay]

Not everyones has, or perceives to have, caring people around them with which to share their problems.