Scleropages
Very Well-Known Member
haha I can sum it up in once sentence....
MAGICK UNICORNS and Longqi's FURRY BACK = ALIENS!!!!!! 0.O
MAGICK UNICORNS and Longqi's FURRY BACK = ALIENS!!!!!! 0.O
Evolving from monkeys?
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Australis
Almost Legendary
^ Even scientists can get caught up in whimsical ideas :lol:
Another news item on this subject.
Kraken monster ruled ancient seas? Scientists wary of new theor | Alaska Dispatch
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FAY
Guest
Austy is definitely an alien. Just look at his avatar (taken of himself with his own camera) he tells me!
Australis
Almost Legendary
My avatar evolved on earth... unless aliens helped dinosaurs evolve as well :lol: ... sorry i mean "magic sky daddy" unicorns.
Just out of curiosity, you keep mentioning these three major changes:
I do have a question about aliens, though - why are they so fond of Iowa cornfields inhabited by photographers with shaky hands? Also, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH ELVIS?!
What were those three changes and what makes them objectively major?
I do have a question about aliens, though - why are they so fond of Iowa cornfields inhabited by photographers with shaky hands? Also, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH ELVIS?!
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Bluetongue1
Guest
The following data is from the link that you provided. List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
|-
| style="width: 213px" | FOSSIL
| style="width: 220px" | TIME SPAN (years before present)
| width="205" style="border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | CRANIAL CAPACITY
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Ardipithecus
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 4.4 M
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 300 – 350 cc
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Australopithecus
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 4.4 – 2.0 M
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 375 – 500 cc
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo habilis
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 2.5 – 1.5 M
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 510 – 800 cc
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo erectus
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 2.0 – 1.0 M
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 900 – 1100 cc
|-
| width="638" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 6.65in; background-color: transparent" | To complete the picture -
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo sapiens neaderthalensis
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 350,000 – 30,000
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 1450 cc
|-
| width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo sapiens sapiens
| width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 200.000 - present
| width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 1350 cc
|-
10,000 years ago human society changed immensely with the Agrarian Revolution. People were able to produce plant foods (grains) in large quantities, so much so that they could store food and were no longer tied to collecting it on a daily basis. Domestication of animals followed as there was sufficient food to feed them as well. More importantly, it allowed for individuals to take up and develop other pursuits so the roles of individuals became diversified and large aggregations of people not involved in agriculture began to develop. This was given an even greater boost with the industrial revolutionand the development and utilization of electrical power.
So what you are looking at over the past 10,000 years is not evolution of intellect. It is social and technological evolution. As was pointed out, it is the development of knowledge that has allowed the human race to achieve what it has. The expansion of knowledge over this period has been at an exponential rate.
Blue
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Bluetongue1
Guest
Human evolution
Humans are believed to have evolved from an ape-ancestor, somewhere out of the changing Dryopithecines during the Miocene era. Somewhere between 8 to 6 million years ago the split between modern apes and modern humans occurred. Unfortunately the fossil evidence around this period is rather scant and there are a number of possible candidates on the human lineage. What is commonly accepted is that the line gave rise to the Australopithecines (refer to Australis’ post #12– very nice!), which developed in east Africa and Southern Africa. There were two general forms, the robust and the gracile. Robust were more vegetarian (a bit like Gorillas – they had the sagittal crest mentioned by Crocdoc to attach the large jaw muscles required for eating tough vegetable matter) and gracile, which were more omnivorous and opportunistic. Human stock is thought to have arisen from the gracile form. Homo appears to havefirst developed in east Africa but then spread to Europe and Asia.
As humans do today, human ancestors displayed a lack of specialisation or adaptations to a specific mode of existence. They were behaviourally adaptive. So learning new behaviours was part of their survival strategies. Learning requires memory, memory requires nerve patterns in the brain, the bigger the brain the more you can learn, the better the chance of survival. Couple this with erect posture and no longer walking on your hands and you have the ideal scenario for developing tool use and then tool making.
Odd Bods & Sods
There is no “missing link”. This was simply a phrase coined by a remarkable man named Eugène Dubois. It has since been misused to the hilt.
There is apoor understanding of chromosomes. Much of the DNA found in human chromosomes is “junk”. It does nothing.
Genetic variation is part and parcel of sexual reproduction – crossing over, independent assortment of chromatids and recombination. These happen all the time. That is aside from mutations – which can be environmentally induced or result from errors in transcription during replication plus...
Whole chromosomescan be dragged to one sex cell if the spindle fibre to which they are attached fails to split at the centromere (point of attachment) – so one cell receives 24chromatids and the other receives 22 – a process known as meiotic nondisjunction (alluded to by Crocdoc).
A scientific theory is that which provides the best explanation of the known facts. Falsification refers to part of the armoury of science in gathering those facts – along with controlled experiments and scientific method generally. Theories can be and often are refined over time as new information that is not catered for by the existing theory comes to light.
A law is an indisputable given e.g. The law of gravity – any two masses will exert a forceof attraction on each other. Nothing can exceed the speed of light – at c massbecomes infinite.
Neanderthals are Homo sapiens – ice age genius!
If you have calluses on your knuckles you are reading the wrong thread. Don’t go out after dark, stay away from strange celestial lights (street lights included) and don’t answer any adds in the newspaper or on the net asking for swingers – they don't use trees.
Blue
Humans are believed to have evolved from an ape-ancestor, somewhere out of the changing Dryopithecines during the Miocene era. Somewhere between 8 to 6 million years ago the split between modern apes and modern humans occurred. Unfortunately the fossil evidence around this period is rather scant and there are a number of possible candidates on the human lineage. What is commonly accepted is that the line gave rise to the Australopithecines (refer to Australis’ post #12– very nice!), which developed in east Africa and Southern Africa. There were two general forms, the robust and the gracile. Robust were more vegetarian (a bit like Gorillas – they had the sagittal crest mentioned by Crocdoc to attach the large jaw muscles required for eating tough vegetable matter) and gracile, which were more omnivorous and opportunistic. Human stock is thought to have arisen from the gracile form. Homo appears to havefirst developed in east Africa but then spread to Europe and Asia.
As humans do today, human ancestors displayed a lack of specialisation or adaptations to a specific mode of existence. They were behaviourally adaptive. So learning new behaviours was part of their survival strategies. Learning requires memory, memory requires nerve patterns in the brain, the bigger the brain the more you can learn, the better the chance of survival. Couple this with erect posture and no longer walking on your hands and you have the ideal scenario for developing tool use and then tool making.
Odd Bods & Sods
There is no “missing link”. This was simply a phrase coined by a remarkable man named Eugène Dubois. It has since been misused to the hilt.
There is apoor understanding of chromosomes. Much of the DNA found in human chromosomes is “junk”. It does nothing.
Genetic variation is part and parcel of sexual reproduction – crossing over, independent assortment of chromatids and recombination. These happen all the time. That is aside from mutations – which can be environmentally induced or result from errors in transcription during replication plus...
Whole chromosomescan be dragged to one sex cell if the spindle fibre to which they are attached fails to split at the centromere (point of attachment) – so one cell receives 24chromatids and the other receives 22 – a process known as meiotic nondisjunction (alluded to by Crocdoc).
A scientific theory is that which provides the best explanation of the known facts. Falsification refers to part of the armoury of science in gathering those facts – along with controlled experiments and scientific method generally. Theories can be and often are refined over time as new information that is not catered for by the existing theory comes to light.
A law is an indisputable given e.g. The law of gravity – any two masses will exert a forceof attraction on each other. Nothing can exceed the speed of light – at c massbecomes infinite.
Neanderthals are Homo sapiens – ice age genius!
If you have calluses on your knuckles you are reading the wrong thread. Don’t go out after dark, stay away from strange celestial lights (street lights included) and don’t answer any adds in the newspaper or on the net asking for swingers – they don't use trees.
Blue
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damian83
Very Well-Known Member
thats pretty much on the money
it has been estimated that the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees (with whom we share 99 percent of our genes) lived five million years ago. Going back a little farther, the Hominidae clade is 13 million years old. If we continue farther back in time, we find that placental mammals are between 60 and 80 million years old and that the oldest four-limbed animal, or tetrapod, lived between 300 and 350 million years ago and the earliest chordates (animals with a notochord) appeared about 990 million years ago. Humans belong to each of these successively broader groups.
although we are closer to dna in pigs, go figure.....
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Bluetongue1
Guest
A few bits that are not technically spot on but the main thrust is good. A shared common ancestor is definitely not the same thing as “evolving from”. If anything, it is evolving with, in parallel. All species are continuing to evolve. To get a handle on it, think of one million years of evolution being required to change sufficiently to warrant new species status. That is pretty much the minimum required.
Only the pendants, like me, need bother reading the rest….
There is a difference between sequences of genetic code(genome) and genes – we have 96% of the former in common with chimps.
I think you are referring to the Hominoidea rather than Hominidae.
6 – 8 to million is more commonly accepted as the branching point of hominids from chimp ancestor.
First Primates were around 65 M and first mammals 200 M. The Wikepedia estimates for first placental mammals don’t really make sense. First chordates are more like 530 M. 990 M would put you into the pre-Cambrian (540+ M) – the late Proterozoic to be exact. I think the name speaks for itself. Around the 500 M mark is more likely for the first protochordates.
The pig comparison does not include the entire genonme. Only those genes coding for proteins. Given the common biochemistry shared by mammals that is not surprising. Genetic comparisons have been done with pigs because they have a similar digestive system (omnivorous) to human and have been used as source of medical materials for humans – insulin and heart valves being two major ones.
Blue
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Jungle_Freak
Very Well-Known Member
We have 96% of the same genes as chimps ?
Well what about that other 4% ?
We must get that 4% from them darn aliens i guess. ha ha ha
TWILIGHT ZONE theme playing in my ear ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
Well what about that other 4% ?
We must get that 4% from them darn aliens i guess. ha ha ha
TWILIGHT ZONE theme playing in my ear ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
Mo Deville
Well-Known Member
see hybrids are cool and natural, smarter, better looking chimps!
here's one of my faves im saving up for, to plug into my breeding projects!
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Bluetongue1
Guest
You do realise of course that should you fail to produce offspring initially, it will require periodic repeated matings until the female is gravid. That may involve an extensive amount of time and effort on your behalf. I can only but wonder if you are prepared to commit to that which may be required? I can only wish you well and hope that you have what it takes to see the project through to completion.
In re-reading this thread it is rather frightening to see the mis-information put out by some, using the names of fossil hominids and hominoids but totally incorrectly ascribing their lineage. Thankfully there was a significant percentage of posters who had a good understanding of hominid evolutionary lineages and put the known evidence to the fore. Not to mention the confusion of cultural evolution with biological evolution – hopefully sorted out by the example of Australian aborigines making the transition from a stone culture to a modern culture. If posters are going to comment on something, they should make some effort to ensure they are au fait with the facts first. Otherwise they run the very real risk of spreading falsities and incorrect understandings.
Blue
Some quick comments after reading this thread through:
The difference in human/great ape chromosome number is most likely due to our chromosome 2 being formed from the fusion of two chromosomes currently separate in the ape lineage sometime after the human lineage split.
The 'we're 98/99/96% genetically the same as chimpanzees' line is a little misleading - while there's only a few percent difference in our base sequences, most of the genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees derive from changes not linked to changes in the specific base sequences per se but rather gene copy number differences, regulatory changes, transposition events etc.
The difference in human/great ape chromosome number is most likely due to our chromosome 2 being formed from the fusion of two chromosomes currently separate in the ape lineage sometime after the human lineage split.
The 'we're 98/99/96% genetically the same as chimpanzees' line is a little misleading - while there's only a few percent difference in our base sequences, most of the genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees derive from changes not linked to changes in the specific base sequences per se but rather gene copy number differences, regulatory changes, transposition events etc.
thelionking
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Well yeah, but not proper natural selection. I mean, (not that I have anything against this) we keep crippled and diseased people alive and I guess that would cause more of our human population to be genetically diseased. But we have so many humans I don't think it mattersNatural selection is occuring within human populations. More desirable traits are being picked and less not as much. Seemingly shallow ideals about attractiveness is really just another step of evolution
Imported_tuatara
Well-Known Member
Wrong! we are all primitive bone fish.
Foozil
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Placoderms aren't toooooo primitive.
Bluetongue1
Well-Known Member
Well done! - that explains the pharyngeal gills slits in our embryos.
Hang on…
One small problem. (Well two actually.) Placoderms went extinct and the last time I tried breathing under water I almost drowned. Those damned gills don’t work very well.
Hang on…
One small problem. (Well two actually.) Placoderms went extinct and the last time I tried breathing under water I almost drowned. Those damned gills don’t work very well.
SpottedPythons
Well-Known Member
Curses... why are we keeping the specimens whose gills are dysfunctional? That ain't natural selection.
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