Fierce Snake

[-Peter]

I remember talking to Tim Nias after he bred his inlands and passed the offspring on and how there where three bites within the first year or two. All on extremely experienced ven keepers.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

Each to their own Andy. I know people who have had a Taipan in their collection within six months of owning and handling their first ven and haven't had any problems at all. I think it isn't the ammount of years you've been dealing with them but more so the confidence and experience you have gained over that period of time. I'm not at all suggesting people to go out handle a ven and in six months time get a taipan, I completely aggree you should have a few years experience below you belt. It's easy to say Victoria's lic system is too easy to own dangerous reptiles but think of the people who already do own these reptiles, especially people interstate. They would be experienced keepers and know their reptiles and aren't just going to go handing them out to kids for halloween, they have a reputation to keep also so they will hopfully do their research before exporting to some newby surely. I've been keeping elapids for a few years now and there are still people interstate who wont deal with me because they don't know my abilities first hand and I don't know the people they want references from so such is life.

G'day mate,

You've got some good points. I too know of someone who bought Inlands 6 months into their elapid keeping career (probably the same person, who's attitude seems to have matured significantly recently). One thing to remember is that when the animal needed to be restrained for medical assistance they needed to call in a more experienced handler for help. Personally, I believe a competant elapid keeper should be able to personally do everything that is necessary (aside from the more complex of medical procedures) with an elapid with minimal outside assistance with large animals or intricate procedures. Anybody at all could keep a Death Adder as long as nothing went wrong, but as soon as it has a retained eye scale or tail tip the story changes.

You're also right about how most experienced keepers won't sell animals to relatively new keepers. There is different levels to this...some won't sell any elapids to new keepers, some won't sell certain species and some will sell any species the new keeper is licenced to keep. Personally I subscribe to the second option...there's no way I will sell a Coastal Taipan to someone I don't know personally, but I wouldn't have a drama selling a Red Belly to someone who has the right attitude and permit.

Cheers

 

[voodoo]

G'day mate,

there's no way I will sell a Coastal Taipan to someone I don't know personally, but I wouldn't have a drama selling a Red Belly to someone who has the right attitude and permit.

Cheers

Ahh, is that why you havent gotten back to me about selling me one of your Coastals.

I have to say if he really wants an inland, and the law allows him to keep one legally...let him get one. Hopefully one day the licencing bodies will wake up to them selves when they relise they litterally giving a loaded and deadly weapon to a person not experienced enough to handle it.

Cheers
Dee

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day Dee,

Nah, I didn't get back to you because I don't even remember you asking I don't have any for sale anyway.

I think anyone who has any experience with Parks and Wildlife know that they have about as much experience with elapids as I do with cooking, and I'm flat out making toast. The onus is on us keepers to maintain a level of sensibility when choosing who we distribute animals to, rather than taking some over-confident, under-skilled punters cash and turning a blind eye. I know I couldn't blame Parks for giving someone their permit prematurely if they were killed by a snake I sold them - I would blame myself.

 

[redbellybite]

I would like to see anyone that buys a "HOT SPECIES" before purchase ,maybe the breeder could witness the handling skills of the wanna be new owner ..and judge from what you see ,,,its a hard one to answer and you cant go on age or experience, as we all know there are freaks(in a nice way) that seem to have a natural amazing knack with animals ,even though they have only been in the game for a few years ...in most cases your gut will tell you if you should sell or not ,but alas like everything you get the breeders that want to turn a buck so if its flashing a permit with the green go ahead ,they will make the deal ....

 

[daniel1234]

This is an interesting thread, been watching it as it pops up.

We had some one down here who died, I think from a taipan, recently.
This surprised me as I thought that anyone who kept vens would know how to treat such a bite, and at that stage I was still wondering why people do keep them (I can appreciate them now though for their colours and so forth, as I am appreciating all herps I don't own).

Would I be right in assuming that taipan bites have a small window for treatment, and can keepers not have antivenom at the ready the same way a person allergic to bees has adrenaline, or a diabetic who has injectable glucose? Was this guy just one of the yahoos you are all talking about? (edit: I know you proberbly don't know the guy, so don't really expect a reply to this bit).

 

[moosenoose]

Would I be right in assuming that taipan bites have a small window for treatment, and can keepers not have antivenom at the ready the same way a person allergic to bees has adrenaline, or a diabetic who has injectable glucose? Was this guy just one of the yahoos you are all talking about? (edit: I know you proberbly don't know the guy, so don't really expect a reply to this bit).

From what I have gathered (with no great knowledge on the matter personally), mistakes with these animals won't be a walk in the park. Same with brownsnakes! Whilst you might get away with a bungle with a tiger or a copperhead, or similar...you can bet your bottom dollar if you don't do something FAST with a bite from a brown or a taipan, you're as good as history!

That said, I believe there was a fellow from North Queensland who survived a potentially fatal invenomation for hours unassisted because he administered the correct 1st aid treatment to the bite area. Which happened to be on a limb. I gather a bite to the torso would just about book you a trip to the morgue??

 

[m.punja]

This is an interesting thread, been watching it as it pops up.

We had some one down here who died, I think from a taipan, recently.
This surprised me as I thought that anyone who kept vens would know how to treat such a bite, and at that stage I was still wondering why people do keep them (I can appreciate them now though for their colours and so forth, as I am appreciating all herps I don't own).

Would I be right in assuming that taipan bites have a small window for treatment, and can keepers not have antivenom at the ready the same way a person allergic to bees has adrenaline, or a diabetic who has injectable glucose? Was this guy just one of the yahoos you are all talking about? (edit: I know you proberbly don't know the guy, so don't really expect a reply to this bit).

Antivenom is expencive and has a life span of a year or something similar, Jonno will know. So no, keepers don't keep antivenom on hand for these two reasons and also, even with antivenom you are going to need some medical assistance. It is not something they just jab into you if you are biten and say sleep it off, it has to be timed right. A lot of snake bite victims that end up in hospital leave again without receiving antivenom.
Imagine if you copper a dry bite then banged antivenom into you...don't sound like fun to me.

 

[m.punja]

G'day mate,

I too know of someone who bought Inlands 6 months into their elapid keeping career (probably the same person, who's attitude seems to have matured significantly recently). One thing to remember is that when the animal needed to be restrained for medical assistance they needed to call in a more experienced handler for help. Personally, I believe a competant elapid keeper should be able to personally do everything that is necessary (aside from the more complex of medical procedures) with an elapid with minimal outside assistance with large animals or intricate procedures. Anybody at all could keep a Death Adder as long as nothing went wrong, but as soon as it has a retained eye scale or tail tip the story changes.
Cheers

Can't aggree with you more Jonno. Especially with the Death Adder comment, however I don't see any harm in a keeper asking for assistance when dealing with such elapids as Browns and Taipans, or even Tigers. I am confident in my abilities to look after all my elapids and have restrained about 90% of them, however even as confident as I am I still don't deal with them when I am home alone. Even if I am calling in my mum to stand around while I manually slough a Death Adder or inspect an eye cap on a tiger at least I have someone there should something go wrong. And if I can get in another handler or keeper while I am probing browns or tigers I will, not because I'm no confident it's just reasuring having someone else there who can help if need be.

 

[daniel1234]

Antivenom is expencive and has a life span of a year or something similar, Jonno will know. So no, keepers don't keep antivenom on hand for these two reasons and also, even with antivenom you are going to need some medical assistance. It is not something they just jab into you if you are biten and say sleep it off, it has to be timed right. A lot of snake bite victims that end up in hospital leave again without receiving antivenom.
Imagine if you copper a dry bite then banged antivenom into you...don't sound like fun to me.

I take it antivenom isn't without it's side effects and requires more than just a jab!

Yeh I kinda suspected it was not cheap, like most medical/medicine products (a simple shot of glucose will set you back $50 here, antivenom has got to be more than that and if you have more than one kind of snake well $$$$!) Just figured if it was that simple, and a bite was super quick to take effect you'd want stuff like that around, Man, the answer is proberbly right under my nose (literately) in one of my textbooks, I'll look it up after I finish doing what I am supposed to be doing

 

[notechistiger]

I take it antivenom isn't without it's side effects and requires more than just a jab!

I believe it's quite common to have an allergic to the antivenom, similar to a bee sting. Imagine that. Bitten by your pet taipan, you self inject the antivenom, and you have an allergic reaction to it anyway. In this case, you'd be dead no matter what.

And m.punja, there's nothing at all wrong with it

 

[Inlandtaipan078]

lol jonno hmm toast
there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit

 

[Australis]

Your not doomed if you have an allergic reaction to the antivenom, although you may wish you were dead.
Insects kill more Australians anyways ha.

 

[elapid68]

lol jonno hmm toast
there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit

Melbourne Hospital has Taipan antivenom. If you need it you'll be not only getting a bill from the hospital for the treatment but also the zoo because it's actually owned by them incase their staff get tagged.

 

[waruikazi]

From what I have gathered (with no great knowledge on the matter personally), mistakes with these animals won't be a walk in the park. Same with brownsnakes! Whilst you might get away with a bungle with a tiger or a copperhead, or similar...you can bet your bottom dollar if you don't do something FAST with a bite from a brown or a taipan, you're as good as history!

That said, I believe there was a fellow from North Queensland who survived a potentially fatal invenomation for hours unassisted because he administered the correct 1st aid treatment to the bite area. Which happened to be on a limb. I gather a bite to the torso would just about book you a trip to the morgue??

I know a guy who had to do first aid for a fierce snake bite on the chest, with pressure bandages correctly applied and applied quickly the victim showed no signs of envenomation for the 7 hours it took to get to hospital. I would still much rather a bite on any limb than the torso/face but they aren't death sentences like people make them out to be.

 

[m.punja]

lol jonno hmm toast
there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit

Ballarat also has antivenom.

 

[Inlandtaipan078]

I stand corrected:?
Cheers guys.

 

[notechistiger]

Your not doomed if you have an allergic reaction to the antivenom, although you may wish you were dead.

If you were at home with no medical assistance available?

 

[junglepython2]

If you were at home with no medical assistance available?

You would almost always be in a hospital setting when it is administered. As keepers don't keep a supply of antivenom at home.

 

[notechistiger]

I know that, I was still referring to my scenario at the top of the page.