Fierce Snake

[gravitation]

Wow imagine me with an elapid, i'd get struck on the mouth for trying to give it a smooch.

 

[-Peter]

If you keep venomous snakes you should have protocols in place. If you have an allergy and you are aware of this condition you will have the appropriate treatment at hand. You will have bandages instantly accessable where the bite took place no matter where that is. You will be aware enough to remove any jewellry and restrictive clothing. You will have a phone nearby to ring 000 and a nice comfy spot to lay down and wait with you and the bite immobilised. You wil have been in the practice of only handling your snakes in a safe area that can be locked down immediately in case you are either unable to return the snake to an enclosure or bag or the snake has gotten loose. You really dont want to leave family and friends there worried about loose snakes and you shouldn't be running around trying to secure them. You should have a written procedure of what to do and who to call in case your snakes need attention if the rest of your household aren't up for the task.
You really dont want to be worrying about other things if you are bitten. Plan ahead.
Feel free to add to this.

 

[m.punja]

Sounds right to me Peter. Well said

 

[horsesrule]

Melbourne Hospital has Taipan antivenom. If you need it you'll be not only getting a bill from the hospital for the treatment but also the zoo because it's actually owned by them incase their staff get tagged.

There will be no bill if its a state hospital.

Royal Melbourne is a state hospital.

 

[horsesrule]

I think if this person wants one let him/her get one.

Its not up to us to make decisions for them. If they get bitten then thats there problem not yours not mine and not the sellers.

In Victoria most people who keep snakes without licence keep venemous snakes because thats really all we have unless you go right to the border.

If this person has the proper licence then i see no reason not to sell to them.

 

[notechistiger]

Ooh, I know a good reason! Because it could kill them? You could then go further and say that a snake biting and killing its owner would give snakes a bad name (worse then what they have now). Jeeze, A Current Affair would have a field day...

 

[horsesrule]

Ooh, I know a good reason! Because it could kill them? You could then go further and say that a snake biting and killing its owner would give snakes a bad name (worse then what they have now). Jeeze, A Current Affair would have a field day...

Sorry i dont agree, if they do get killed thats there fault and there problem.

Besides there more likely to die in a car crash or get run over. So lets keep it in perspective.

 

[Benjamin]

It´s right, to know where the antivenom is
but I don´t understand the discussion about the antivenom, so long... I´ve had venomous snakes since 18 years. My "pets" where since this time snakes of the genera Naja, Echis, Bitis, Bothrops, Crotalus, Zhaoermia, Dendroaspis, Oxyuranus, and some more. Some of this snakes are very, very dangerous! Some of them are more dangerous then Taipans. But I can´t understand the hype about O. microlepidotus. Fiercies are in the youth real devils, that´s right. They are very nervous, and agressively against everything. But when they come grown up, they are very relaxed
Now look at the picture

I´ve seen, the most enclosures of you are able to opening in the upon. The most predators in nature are coming from upside. The snake is thinking there´s coming a predator, and is nervous.
My enclosures are able to opening from the frontside, you see.
When they have a box for going in, they are more relaxed

I´ve even not bitten this 18 years, thinking about
Cheers
Benjamin

 

[AustHerps]

Horsesrule,

Everytime someone gets bitten, our rights to own venomous snakes is threatened. This also has the potential to impact an individual's rights to own any native animal. Therefore, a bite is your problem, my problem, and the victim's problem.

As for all treatment at a state hospital being free, that is only the case if the hospital owns the medicine it is administering. Melbourne Zoo is the bailor of the AV, whereas the Royal Melbourne is the bailee. If you use the taipan AV at the Royal, make no mistake, you'll get a bill for it.

Aaron.

 

[horsesrule]

Horsesrule,

Everytime someone gets bitten, our rights to own venomous snakes is threatened. This also has the potential to impact an individual's rights to own any native animal. Therefore, a bite is your problem, my problem, and the victim's problem.

As for all treatment at a state hospital being free, that is only the case if the hospital owns the medicine it is administering. Melbourne Zoo is the bailor of the AV, whereas the Royal Melbourne is the bailee. If you use the taipan AV at the Royal, make no mistake, you'll get a bill for it.

Aaron.

I worked in the healthcare field within government for well over a decade and i am certain that they cant bill you legally. They may try but you would have every legal right to refuse to pay.

Its the hospitals resposibility if a state hospital to pay Melbourne Zoo not the person being treated.

State hospitals = free healthcare

 

[baxtor]

I worked in the healthcare field within government for well over a decade and i am certain that they cant bill you legally. They may try but you would have every legal right to refuse to pay.

Its the hospitals resposibility if a state hospital to pay Melbourne Zoo not the person being treated.

State hospitals = free healthcare

I agree. The antivenom needs to be obtained by the hospital and I do not see why it would make any difference whether they aquire it from CSL or the Zoo or some other source, it is still going to have to get it in order to administer it. I know as far as country Vic is concerned there is a system of sharing in place between hospitals within regions.

 

[wizz]

well i think there should be classes of licensing from 1 to 5 like in most states..i think of it as if you can sell a young kid a fierce snake and he gets bitten and dies then all that responsibility is on you as you were the one that handed over the lethal weapon ......were if we had 1 to 5 licensing that kid would have to go through all the steps and requirements to prove himself capable of handling such a venomous snake....one of my good mates got bitten by an eastern brown and had to go through 10 viles of antivenom it was not pretty especially when serum sickness kicked in and the side affects last for your whole life ......you should at least have your venomous license for a few years before you are allowed to buy fiercies and coastal tais and browns.........so for now we just need to be responsible keepers!!!!!

 

[baxtor]

well i think there should be classes of licensing from 1 to 5 like in most states..i think of it as if you can sell a young kid a fierce snake and he gets bitten and dies then all that responsibility is on you as you were the one that handed over the lethal weapon ......were if we had 1 to 5 licensing that kid would have to go through all the steps and requirements to prove himself capable of handling such a venomous snake....one of my good mates got bitten by an eastern brown and had to go through 10 viles of antivenom it was not pretty especially when serum sickness kicked in and the side affects last for your whole life ......you should at least have your venomous license for a few years before you are allowed to buy fiercies and coastal tais and browns.........so for now we just need to be responsible keepers!!!!!

I doubt anybody is going to sell a "young kid" a fierce snake anyway but I believe we all need to take responsibility for our own actions and not try to offload those responsibilities onto somebody else when things go wrong. There are plenty of young kids writing themselves off every weekend pursuing other activities and at the end of the day it is their choice and THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, it should not be any different if they choose to keep potentially dangerous reptiles.

 

[m.punja]

I'm seeing points for and against. If you are looking at it as being your responisibilty when selling a snake to someone (which I do partly agree with) then would it be a sales persons responsibilty when handing over the key's to a V8 or sport's car to an inexperienced young driver? True you can say that's why licenses are there but it still happens and kids still die in over powered vehicles and no car-yard sales person is held responsible.
horsesrule, unfortuently when reptiles are involved common people don't see perspective. They see a great big long slivery deadly animal that would be better off chopped in two. So they don't see why we want them as pets. So they don't care. They don't compare it. They don't look outside the box and they don't say, serves him right. They complain and the media gets involved and chinese whispers spread and before you know it your resting from a bite and the TV is saying you have died from an exotic snake bite. This does effect us all because they then review the licensing and think 'well...do people really need venomous snakes as pets?'
They should change the laws in vic or monitor them more carefully.

The government is constantly changing driving rules and regulations in a bid to keep the death toll down, you think if captive pet snake bites rise and the media get's wind they wont change rules and regulations to keep the numbers down? Car's are a nesessity snakes are not so they will have a good foot to stand on to make it a hell of a lot harder to keep elapids or to ilegalise them completely.

 

[baxtor]

They should change the laws in vic or monitor them more carefully.

The government is constantly changing driving rules and regulations in a bid to keep the death toll down, you think if captive pet snake bites rise and the media get's wind they wont change rules and regulations to keep the numbers down? Car's are a nesessity snakes are not so they will have a good foot to stand on to make it a hell of a lot harder to keep elapids or to ilegalise them completely.

Your argument for changes to the laws in victoria seems to be based on an assumption that there is some sort of problem. Where are the stats that suggest that is the case? There is certainly not much in the way of news items to support that view.
Driving rules change in response to a problem either perceived or real but what you are suggesting is that the rules be changed before a problem arises in order to avoid the rules being changed :?:?:?

 

[m.punja]

I didn't mean it that way. Someone said it's not our problem if someone else is biten. However, if inexperienced people are getting their hands on browns and tais and are constantly getting biten then this will rise a problem and they will do something about it. I think they should change the rules a little at least JMO

 

[horsesrule]

Sorry i dont agree with the laws being ameded in Victoria if anything i would push for them to be more freely open like South Australia.

We dont need more laws in Vic with licencing. We do need them to start letting us keep many more species that are not on the lists though.

 

[baxtor]

i think one major problem with a grading system based on experience is that even though a certain species of snake may be classified regarding it's expected level of aggression there are many of that species that may be far more or less aggressive than what is expected, so we could end up with somebody who has plenty of experience (based on time) with pussy cat individual elapids who moves on to the next level and ends up with a phsyco snake he can't handle.
We could also have the relatively inexperienced (again time based) keeper who just happened to have phsyco from the beginning who would have no problem at all progressing.
I have been into tigers, c/heads and rbbs for close to 40 years and am very comfortable with them but I have never kept a taipan and my first would still be that, my first and if it turned out to be a handfull would all my years with my local species actually be an advantage or a disadvantage?

 

[moosenoose]

The trouble is keeping non-state-native animals! Why should state hospitals have to foot the bill for private keepers?? I think keepers of exotic-to-state animals can count their lucky stars that these hospital/s do stock antivenin primarily for the zoo!

Anyway, what next?? Ban bushwalking :lol: