has anyone heard?

[Fuscus]

Tommo, the amnesty has not worked as it is not a true amnesty. Read the conditions on the amnesty leaflet.

I took you advice and read the leaflet.

You can remain anonymous thoughout the process. If you don't want to give your name and address, you don't have to.

 

[soulweaver]

what are they going to do with the snakes if they are handed in>?

who in melb wants to open a reptile zoo?? you go to the zoo and the reptile house is always busy, so i think that you could get the people in!! anyone interested???

 

[NoOne]

Even if people release them their not likely to survive, can you see a emerald tree boa, or burmese or anything suriviving in Sydney, Melbourne? They would all be dead by the first winter.

What about in the tropics? They still wouldn't last long, for many reasons.

 

[Fuscus]

I expect that corn snakes would be able to live in Sydney, In fact it might be a touch too warm and they may move south to the dismal city

 

[peterescue]

I would expect that all North American snakes could survive quite well in Sydney. Except for those used to much cooler temps and they could grab cheap flight south.
Also NSW is a big state that encompasses a mildly varying range of climates.
Some survive. whether they could ever successfully breed is another matter.

 

[Fuscus]

whether they could ever successfully breed is another matter.

Thats the important part. It really doesn't matter if they don't become established, but the first we would know is when one of more established populations are found.

 

[instar]

would they make much impact on our snake species? competition for food etc? plenty of mice in some places.

 

[bigguy]

Peter, exotic snakes are no different to Aussie snakes, Nothing magical at all about them, there just plan snakes. Some are tropical, some may be temprid zoned. The point I am making is thousands apon thousands of Australian snakes have escaped from collections around Sydney alone over the years. Have you ever found a colony of Childrens, Olives, Waters or even Carpets breeding around Sydney.

As far as I am aware there are only 2 sucsessful exotic herps. The Red Eared Sliders that were released into small ecko systems like dams in large numbers over the last 50 years and Asian House Geckoes which have been in Australia for some time, maybe hundreds of years.. Of cause theres always the Cane Toad which was again released in enough numbers to breed.

 

[saikrett]

yeah, plenty of mice, not many native marsupials

 

[Fuscus]

1 corn snake wandering around the bush means less space for something else, or possibly more food for something else, maybe a cat.
BigGuy, there is a third species, the flowerpot blind snake. Now if that pushes out some other blind snake would we ever know?

 

[instar]

good point saikrett. hey how bout transferring some cane toads into areas with mice plagues???starving mice might attack the toads then they both die. a silo or sealed sheds release them i mean

 

[bigguy]

fuscus, I am no expert on Blind Snakes , but I was always under the impression that the Flowerpot Blkind snake was the worlds smallest snake and that it was an australian species.

As for your lone Corn Snake wandering around, I hardly think there would not be room for him here, considering the room we make by killing an estimated 20 million reptiles every year in Australia.

 

[instar]

http://www.ecologyasia.com/Vertebrates/brahminy_blind_snake.htm ??

One snake species?the flowerpot blind snake?reproduces without mating. This species consists entirely of females who reproduce by a process called parthenogenesis. In this type of reproduction, the chromosomes within an unfertilized egg replicate, and the embryo develops as if the egg had been fertilized. One advantage of parthenogenesis is that females can reproduce whenever environmental conditions are optimal, without waiting to make contact with a mate.


or this one
http://www.kingsnake.com/oz/snakes/typhlops/raustral.htm

 

[Fuscus]

Flowerpot blind snake Ramphtyphlops branminus
This species has been spread by human activity (in garden planr soil and watercraft soil ballast) from India to South Africa, Madagascar, South-east Asia, Hawaii western Mexico and Australia. It occurs in close association with cultivated gardens at Darwin and Katherine, on the islands of Torres Strait and on Christmas Island and is common in many longer-established suburbs.
Harald Ehmann

The new Wilson and Swan book also says Townsville.

Since it is established in south Africa then I wouldn't be surprised if it turns up in Brisbane and possibly Sydney.

My point on the lone corn snake is that it is not the occasional escapee thats a problem but a feral population would be. Every escapee increases the chances, but it would be a mass dumping that would proberly cause a problem.

 

[Fuscus]

On the subject of introduced populations is this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/science/story/0,12996,1194575,00.html

 

[Hickson]

No charges will be laid UNLESS they suspect a serious crime. They deem smuggling to be a serious crime and with the new laws, YOU, have to prove you did not smuggle.

With this condition added to their leaflet, there is nothing to stop the Federal Government charging all those who surrendered their animals with smuggling once the amnesty is finished. The only way to proove your not guilty would be to dob in the person who you acquired the animal from.

According to the Amnesty website:

"What is a Serious Degree of Criminality?

A serious degree of criminality may include cases where a person is in possession of illegally imported specimens and:

a) is involved in the distribution (including breeding) of those specimens for commercial gain or other breaches involving such a serious degree of criminality;

b) that person has been charged for an offence under Section 303CD (importing CITES specimen), 303EK or 303GN of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 or the Quarantine Act 1908, or a person is under investigation for these offences; or

c) is found to have breached Section 303EK of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999."

The paragraphs in Section 303 refer to bringing animals into the country without a valid permit, or bringing in CITES listed animals or artifacts without the proper documentation.

So just having the animal is not a problem - you have to have the animal and be either commercially profiting from distribution, or have already been charged with smuggling, or be found to have smuggled it in.

Hix

 

[bigguy]

Hix, if you are in possesion of an exotic animal how do you proove you did not smuggle it into the country if they decide to charge you under section 303. As you have it in you possesion and it was not legal imported they could very easily charge anyone who declares on this so called amnesty.

 

[Hickson]

I have not been charged under any part of that Act, and how can I be found to have smuggled something in if I don't admit it? Outside of the Amnesty, then I have to prove where I got it from. But during the Amnesty, as long as I don't hand over a Burm and say "I brought it back from the States six weeks ago with three others - when I sold them they paid for the trip", then they can't prove smuggling.

And of course, I'm not gonna give them my name. Key words are "Anonymous" and "No questions asked".

Hix

 

[bigguy]

Hix, You miss the point. THEY DONT HAVE TO PROVE SMUGGLING. Its up to you to prove you did not. Thats how this law goes. Guiltly to you prove innocence. And if you are in possesion of an exotic that was not lawfully imported into Australia, they can charge ANYONE with smuggling according to the law unless you can prove you did not.

A true amnesty should mean no charges at all. But this amnesty has that added suspicious condition unless you have committed a serious offence, and anyone could be charged under these conditions after handing in animals. A great way to sting people after the amnesty is over. No one would be charged till after the amnesty as word would quickly get around and that would be it.

If anyone is handing in an exotic , Hix is right, never give any details about yourself and make sure they do not get your number plate of your car.

 

[Guest]

Yeah when I read that condition I thought that was suspicious...Because surely they'd have the view that being in possesion of an exotic IS a serious offence.