Help! Need to find out what this substrate is - Vermiculite ?

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I got mine from the same supplier that I believe the person from SECA got theirs from. The supplier makes different grades (or particle sizes) for different uses. What I am suggesting looking at the images you posted is that the product you got may have been a larger and more varied particle size than the one I have i.e. is vermiculite but a different product.

I got two different sized grades of vermiculite. Both have dust. Dust breaks off both grades because it flakes away from the vermiculite. They were selling it as a substrate so why would they sell it for that if it's not the right grade...


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http://www.exfoliators.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/VERMICULITE-CHEMICAL-ANALYSIS.pdf

The first component on the list is silica (SiO2) at 38-46%. I have found a couple of cases of silicosis in reptiles floating around the internet that have re-raised my concerns. Could you please explain and clarify to me that this will not become problematic, say, if dust is produced when the vermiculite rubbed together. Because the vermiculite did appear to work wonderfully as a substrate and I would still very much like to use it, but this will only be once I know that it is 100% safe for long-term use.

Andrew

Some good points Andrew:)

The "cases" of silicosis I found doing some research today all seem to relate to actually one case that was published in Frye's book in 1995. Interesting case and pathology results certainly appear consistent with silicosis. It is interesting to note though that they mention that the affected animal (a green iguana) was housed on a high-silicate commercial cat litter. It does not state the name/type of the litter and given this was written nearly 10 years ago I would be pretty certain it was not a vermiculite cat litter as it did not exist then (vermiculite did but not as a cat litter!).

Which brings me to silicosis... this is a pulmonary disease caused by the inhalation of CRYSTALLINE silica. This form of silica is not found in the vermiculite. In fact in the quarterly report I have been supplied it states "X-ray diffractometry of the chemically digested bulk material generally detected no concentrations of crystalline silica present in the samples of vermiculite". I also found a number of other articles discussing the apparent lack of long term health issues in miners working in vermiculite mines.

I would never say that any product is going to 100% safe for a reptile. The fact is that almost all substrates on the market have their pluses and minuses. They all have their risks and benefits. The fact is that our animals breathe in many potentially dangerous chemicals in their enclosures every day (e.g. dust from substrates, fungal spores from wet timber, insecticides sprayed directly into enclosures to treat mites, smoke from melamine enclosures being heated by poorly located heat lamps etc.)

One a potential risk level I would put vermiculite very far down my list based on what I have experienced and read.

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What period of time did you trial the substrate over Shane @drsimpson? Was the stuff that you were given a prototype or regular production stuff because I would imagine that they would give you the best quality product if that was in their control since it was a trial?

I have been using it for 3 weeks. Only a short time but so far I have been impressed with it.
The product I was given was not a prototype. It is the same material that is commercially available through Pet Barn stores. It goes under the name "Natural Pet Litter" and if you Google that you will find their website. It was supplied to me in the bags that it is sold in.

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I believe it is already on sale there.

Haley and all... I am not trying to convince anyone one way or the other to use the product. If you don't like it then don't use it. What I am trying to impress on everyone is that if you are going to comment on something please make sure you have done the research and are not just making "off the cuff" remarks about something. By all means ask questions as some have you have done... as a scientist I am trained to do that all the time (much to my wife's annoyance!!!). I am happy to answer anyone's concerns to the best of my knowledge and if I am not sure I will either say so or try and find out the CORRECT answer for you.

What I have presented to you is the facts as far as I am aware and my own personal experiences with the product. Take that information as you like.

Here are a couple of photos of the product that I have been using:

This is a close up of the product I have showing particle size.
DSC_0345.JPG

This is an image taken of the product inside one of my dragon tanks.
DSC_0346.JPG
 
Thanks Shane but I have a couple more questions. As read in the MSDS this product can cause irritation to eyes , noes and throat passages to humans after prolonged exposure. Do you think that this could possibly happen to reptiles as well and also is 3 weeks a long enough period for this to occur if it was going to? Have you noticed any of your animals ingest any of this substrate and what were the effects if any?
 
[MENTION=34534]andynic07[/MENTION] I had a bhp swallow a big mouth full of vermiculite when it left the egg. I didn't realize at the time, but when the rest of the clutch s yolk bulges disappeared and this one's didn't I took it to the vet. He squeezed out all the vermiculite and was very surprised.the little one was very thirsty when I got it home as the vermiculite was absorbing any water it drank
 
Thanks Shane but I have a couple more questions. As read in the MSDS this product can cause irritation to eyes , noes and throat passages to humans after prolonged exposure. Do you think that this could possibly happen to reptiles as well and also is 3 weeks a long enough period for this to occur if it was going to? Have you noticed any of your animals ingest any of this substrate and what were the effects if any?

In my experience with MSDS is that they detail EVERYTHING possible.... nothing wrong with that as that is what they should do! I would argue that just about anything that has the potential to cause irritation as described. The reports I have read on the health of vermiculite miners is that they should no ill effects.

Is 3 weeks long enough? Who knows... I have not found the product to be dusty at all so have not expected to see any issues. What will it be like in 3 months, 6 months etc time will tell. How much will it break down over time with dragons scrambling over it??? The beauty is that it is quite cheap and easily replaced if it gets that way.

As far as ingestion... I feed my dragons on a large flat plate in their enclosures. I have noticed a small amount of the material on the plate but have not noticed any physically ingesting it. I am sure at some point they have but I have not noticed any ill effects. I will be checking their faecal matter over the next week or so to see if it passes through though. Given that it does not swell when wet or clump together I would be pretty sure it will pass through with no problems but again time will tell. Yes it will absorb water on its way through but to how significant that will be I guess that will depend on how much is ingested, the size of the animal and the species.
 
Ive been incubating reptile eggs in vermiculite for many years ,definetly irritates my skin and its dusty (type from bunnings ) .
Vermiculite does not have a particularly good look compared to desert sand or small pebbles and its messy ,i end up with little pieces on the floor around the incubator and have to scrape it off of the floor boards.
 
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