Pitttownboy
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Sweet so I didn't need to disclose then, I wonder if this is per business per person or per family
Is it still a hobby?
- Thread starter Merkinball
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Regardless of if you have a requirement to pay gst or not, you are still required to declare your income. If you are operating with book keeping and profit loss statements then you are running a business, and you should be subject to the same rules as any other business.
On the other hand, many people choose to run small operations and choose to do so in a manner that is not legal. It's almost considered unaustralian if you don't. The best advice though, it's probably not a great idea to advertise the fact.
On the other hand, many people choose to run small operations and choose to do so in a manner that is not legal. It's almost considered unaustralian if you don't. The best advice though, it's probably not a great idea to advertise the fact.
lizardwhisperer
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Those who make significant off the books money from the hobby better hope the licencing authorities in each state don't share their records with the ATD, and don't check out your declared incomes against your actual. An audit could be very costly if you're caught in their net.
And anyone on benefits who not declaring could wind up in prison and loosing a lot more than you've tried to keep hidden.
And anyone on benefits who not declaring could wind up in prison and loosing a lot more than you've tried to keep hidden.
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Paintedpythons
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Just thinking out loud .... Every time you sell a snake you fill out the licence details as to who sold it and who bought it . I am sure there is someone in a little room in a government building keeping all the records so if you sold 55 snakes last year they would know about it and I'm sure that the guy next to him is keeping track of all the forums finding out how much snakes are being sold for . Can they join up joe smith on the licence to makebigbucks on the forum ? Would they bother ? Would the government be concerned that they may miss out on $$$$ if lots of people are making a healthy income without declaring ??? .... Most likely I have just got red flagged by that guy in that office but ill never get to the point of giving up my day job . If I loose the joy of having snakes because I want to make big buck I would have to sell the lot and find something that would bring in a monthly income with no high risks ..... But I do think the real big brother is always watching ... If I get bumped off in the next week or so due to saying too much my snakes will be going cheap as my wife won't feed them ! .... Can she sell them as she don't have the licence .. Didn't think of that ! I think she would just open the enclosures ... Open the door and wait in the bedroom till they were all gone
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
One fundamental flaw in this, the price difference between a standard jungle, $150 and a really nice jungle jag $1000 or a zebra jungle $5000. The same could be said for olives to albino olive or a lot of other morphs.
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wokka
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GST obligations are based upon turnover per ABN entity, which does not necessarily relate to profit. If turnover is over 75K you must pay GST. Under that its optional and of couse if you pay GST you can credit gst paid. If you made 20K over and above costs your are legally required to declare that income and pay tax. Some of the deductions you are suggesting should be depreciated over some years, as they are capital, rather than directly offset againsy income.
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wokka
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Believe it or not, there are also rules relating to that, which were directed at hobby farmers offsetting income against their day job. They generally relate to turnover (50K i think) and then you must have the character of a business such as the intent to profit, records etc.
Almost all tax investigations carried out by the ATO are as a result of a tip off, or a general review of a tax agent. Tip offs are a lot more common than you think. Jealousy is a powerful emotion, and market competition is another good explanation for someone to make a five minute phone call that could have serious implications. Defrauding the ATO is frowned upon, and this particular agency in over zealous in handing out punishment.
With some careful handling and setup, an income of $20k, with expenses and expansion taken into consideration could almost equate to zero tax payable. Obviously there are significant unknowns in this situation.
My only point being, if your going to run a for profit hobby/business without a income deceleration, best keep it quiet. Who needs big brother when you have more than enough people who would gladly fill in for big brother for far more self motivated reasons.
With some careful handling and setup, an income of $20k, with expenses and expansion taken into consideration could almost equate to zero tax payable. Obviously there are significant unknowns in this situation.
My only point being, if your going to run a for profit hobby/business without a income deceleration, best keep it quiet. Who needs big brother when you have more than enough people who would gladly fill in for big brother for far more self motivated reasons.
Rogue5861
Very Well-Known Member
This is why prices are not shared with our records, buying or selling. Who's to say that the 4 clutches of jungle pythons someone may sell for $150 don't cost $150 worth of food, power, time (that to me is not profit).
Rick
so just to make sure im understanding this right, a breeder can make $20K profit in a financial year without having any legal obligations to declare it, and its ok to see this money coming thru the regular bank account? Seems like alot for the govt to not want their chunk,.....
saintanger
Very Well-Known Member
unless the ATO is gonna help clean snake poo, stay up all night with a sick reptile, while juggling kids then they don't deserve any money. why should they profit from someone elses hard work.
i made very little last year off a few reptiles and i spent a lot more on electricity, food plus enclosures to house them and vet bills. so i actually did not make a profit at all. i rather spend all the money i make back into reptiles so i have no profit.
i made very little last year off a few reptiles and i spent a lot more on electricity, food plus enclosures to house them and vet bills. so i actually did not make a profit at all. i rather spend all the money i make back into reptiles so i have no profit.
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The ATO taxes everyone who works and generates income. They don't help anyone do their chosen means to generate an income. Regardless of how you choose to generate said income, legally you are obliged to declare it. If your operating costs are in the red, you could actually claim this as a tax offset to your total income so long as the business is carried out in a legal manner.
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wokka
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The ATO gives the money to Government who in turn spend it on things like roads, hospitals, schools and social security. Putting money back into reptiles may not directly offset your taxable income. If you are lucky enough to pay tax it should be because you are making a profit. If you are making a profit and not paying tax someone else is paying more than they should to prop up the costs of running Australia.
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wokka
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If the answer really matters,I would probably ask someone with more credibility than being a member of a reptile forum.
it doesnt really matter, i originally heard it was $50K tax free income for a hobby which really surprised me,....with the few gex i sell throughout the year i'd be lucky to get close to $5k, which is alot less than room id be offsetting if i had to pay tax on them,....
How much you make from your venture is irrelevant to the tax office. Even the legality of the method you generate your income is of no concern to the tax office. The ATO is concerned with income made with the intent to run a commercially viable operation. If your intent is to acquire stock, breed and sell to generate profit, then you are no longer a hobby. If it is your intention to obtain animals, breed and sell some, for your own personal wants, and your intention isn't to run a commercial viable operation then it's still a hobby. It's all about intent.
No-two
Very Well-Known Member
I think some of you need to call the ATO. There is so much crap in this thread which can easily be answered. I'm sure a lot of you will be very surprised but wing_nut has been closest with the intent of your breeding.
Pauls_Pythons
Very Well-Known Member
For anyone who needs clarity on this matter they should examine the ATO website or even speak to a tax expert. Even then it may still remain a little "grey" unless you intend to carry on as a commercial business.
If you pay for web space to advertise your animals or advertise animals for sale on a regular basis you could be liable to tax on any money you make from the sale.
In order to answer the OP's initial question I say YES it's still a hobby if that is what you want it to be. If you want it to be a business it can be a business, though probably not as profitable as some would have you believe. Me, I'm in it for the hobby and I might be lucky enough to have some fantastic animals in my care but it is, and will always be a hobby in my eyes. (An expensive hobby too I might add)
If you pay for web space to advertise your animals or advertise animals for sale on a regular basis you could be liable to tax on any money you make from the sale.
In order to answer the OP's initial question I say YES it's still a hobby if that is what you want it to be. If you want it to be a business it can be a business, though probably not as profitable as some would have you believe. Me, I'm in it for the hobby and I might be lucky enough to have some fantastic animals in my care but it is, and will always be a hobby in my eyes. (An expensive hobby too I might add)
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