HELP- Python frozen/can't move

[eitak]

townsvilles kinda cold atm . . 14 odd degree nights 25 odd degree days

 

[Pythoninfinite]

From the neck twisting it sounds like neuro problems, all snakes have it to a degree its just what triggers it is the mystery,
some have more vulnerability than others like jags and albinos and the like.
Stress is a trigger, if he doesnt like being below 30 than that could be a cause, maybe age aswell.
Sorry but there is nothing you can do about a neuro problem but make them comfortable and less stressed.

Sorry to hear.

What a load of codswallop. Some 'invented' snakes (Jags) display neuro symptoms, but 'all snakes' certainly do not. The head and neck disorientation sounds very much like OPMV to me, and euthing the animal would be the only way to end it's suffering. Conclusive diagnosis is not possible in this country, and even an indefinite diagnosis can only be done post mortem.

Jamie

 

[longqi]

Even on a 25C day there will be hot spots in your back yard or balcony
Just find a place with no wind and direct sunlight
NOT saying this will work but it might be worth a try

While the star gazing suggest OPMV the rest of the symptoms are not commonly found in OPMV
Euthanising it at this stage may be a mistake
Or else it may turn out to be the best option
But only you can make that decision

Personally I would try everything else first

 

[Snakewise84]

was there any x-ray done to see if the are any damaged bones from fulling or some thing fulling on the snake?. when did this all start or has it been going on since you have had the snake?. chance of a blockage of blood flow to the brain and spine?

 

[AshMan]

Does OPMV "HAVE" to be introduced by an infected animal? or can it manifest itself in a healthy animal without being introduced? Sorry for the random question, iv just been reading about OPMV latley and havent been able to find an awnser to this.

 

[longqi]

Being a virus it most probably has to be introduced to the animal from an outside source

But not enough known about it to state categorically 'This is OPMV and this is a list of exact symptoms etc etc"

 

[AshMan]

Being a virus it most probably has to be introduced to the animal from an outside source

But not enough known about it to state categorically 'This is OPMV and this is a list of exact symptoms etc etc"

Cheers longqi, OPMV has proven to be abit of a confusing subject.

 

[Elapidae1]

I would be euthing it.

 

[bluey87]

this is sad to hear i really hope u dont have to euthanise him and he comes good but if even the specialists cant help than maybe its the only way the less pain for the snake the better it sucks but these things happen my heart goes out to ya, i love my animals i would be devistated if i was in ur position

 

[Bluetongue1]

For those who asked and were ignored…

OPMV stands for Ophidian Paramyxovirus – a serious viral disease of snakes. It is not yet known how it is transmitted from one snake to another. It could be air currents or it maybe through a living vector or… The type of virus is a retrovirus, which means it contains RNA and reproduces in a particular way.

Like all viruses, it takes over cells and turns them into “virus factories” producing more viruses to invade more cells. As a result, the invaded cell stops doing the job it is meant to do and when it is full of new virus particles, basically bursts, releases them and dies. As there are billions of cells in the body, it can take a while sometimes for the symptoms to show.

Different viruses need different cells to reproduce them. OPMV is known to enter the brain , the liver and the kidneys. Depending on which particular cells are invaded and how many and what their functions are, the animal may display only one symptom through to the whole lot.

For those interested in a more thorough discussion of OPMV, check out the following…

www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/opmv-53254/
[FONT=&quot]www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/opmv-info-disease-control-pdf-110460/[/FONT]

Blue

 

[Colin]

I'd suggest having a read of one of our members excellent threads on DPS - Diamond Python Syndrome as well.. and yes I realise its a coastal but through this thread part 1 or part 2 I'm sure there mention of a coastal python also having it, so it seems it could be a problem affecting more species than just diamonds? It may not be whats wrong in this instance but the information may be interesting to you and you may find something in there that helps.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-65233/

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-part-2-a-135920/

The similarity of some of the triggers to DPS and the neuro problems seen in jag morphs is interesting as some trigger events like stress, overheating, overfeeding, use of some chemicals like strong disinfectants or mite sprays etc etc have been cited by people as some of the things that seem to contribute to these problems in both instances.. I'm not suggesting that these two heath problems are the same, or related, just that there may be similar symptoms and contributing factors involved. Older age seems to be a common factor but I'd put this down to the older an animal gets, the more chance that it could be exposed to something (trigger event) that sets off this condition that already exists or illness that the snake is susceptible to.

good luck with your animal, and please keep us informed of the progress and details, especially veterinary reports etc. cheers


just to add something that may be relevant especially to diamonds being kept outside in aviaries. years ago when I used to breed parrots I became aware of a severe problem that affected parrots from licking new zincalume wire mesh or drops of water from the zincalume mesh. brand new shiny zincalume mesh when wet gives off this oxidised zinc white powder that has been said to cause loss of contol and some neurological problems if ingested with syptoms similar to lead poisoning . I used to leave rolls of wire out exposed to the elements for several months and make sure they were cured properly before Id ever use it. Im not saying this is related to DPS but its something I'd be careful with when having shiny uncured wire mesh to use for aviary enclosures.

 

[lauren.ferguson]

Didn't notice before, but he shivers too... I left him out a little later than usual (feel horrible that I forgot about him!) and the temp had dropped outside. As soon as I got him back in his warm tank he shivered a few times. I'm guessing this would be for the same reason that we do...but if anyone knows this as a symptom of something I'm all ears (or eye's I should say).

Thanks Bluetounge for the break down . Again, this is still very strange. Bruce had a pretty bad infection of mites which is where they seem to think he may have got something from (most possibly the OPMV) yet he is slowly improving with his injections and staying warm, so it is possible that it's not a virus. It has been suggested that it may have been the mite spray, but I used the "Repti-Mist" one so it's not as likely, and he wasn't quite right before that anyway. This has all been going on since about late FEB, and yes, I feel horrible that he may be in pain, but I do think it is improving (he can move properly now after a few months where he really couldn't before at all), so I really don't want to resort to euthing just yet.
One of the reptile guys at Pet HQ here told me to see Max Kadell- a herp specialist from JCU, so I think I might call him with the enticing proposal of 'medical mystery' and see how I go - thanks for that suggestion!
I have been taking Bruce out in the sun as often as I can too- given that it's cooler I know I can keep him out in the sun, with some shady area's in his mesh cage and water for most of the day and he will be ok.
Thanks everyone for taking so much interest and offering suggestions where you can. I am going to try and feed him today- hasn't eaten since he got sick...will let you know how we go!

 

[AshMan]

Didn't notice before, but he shivers too... I left him out a little later than usual (feel horrible that I forgot about him!) and the temp had dropped outside. As soon as I got him back in his warm tank he shivered a few times. I'm guessing this would be for the same reason that we do...but if anyone knows this as a symptom of something I'm all ears (or eye's I should say).

Im not sure why he would do it but a snake wouldnt shiver because it was cold. We shiver to raise our body heat, which snakes dont have so shivering would do nothing to warm them up. I hope he turns out to be ok, this is very strange and very sad

 

[Elapidae1]

Im not sure why he would do it but a snake wouldnt shiver because it was cold. We shiver to raise our body heat, which snakes dont have so shivering would do nothing to warm them up. I hope he turns out to be ok, this is very strange and very sad

Snakes, usually brooding females sometimes shiver to raise body temp, I also recently observed a healthy snake shivering for some reason or other.

 

[souldoubt]

For those who asked and were ignored…

OPMV stands for Ophidian Paramyxovirus – a serious viral disease of snakes. It is not yet known how it is transmitted from one snake to another. It could be air currents or it maybe through a living vector or… The type of virus is a retrovirus, which means it contains RNA and reproduces in a particular way.

Like all viruses, it takes over cells and turns them into “virus factories” producing more viruses to invade more cells. As a result, the invaded cell stops doing the job it is meant to do and when it is full of new virus particles, basically bursts, releases them and dies. As there are billions of cells in the body, it can take a while sometimes for the symptoms to show.

Different viruses need different cells to reproduce them. OPMV is known to enter the brain , the liver and the kidneys. Depending on which particular cells are invaded and how many and what their functions are, the animal may display only one symptom through to the whole lot.

For those interested in a more thorough discussion of OPMV, check out the following…

www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/opmv-53254/
[FONT=&quot]www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/opmv-info-disease-control-pdf-110460/[/FONT]

Blue

Thats a great breakdown for anyone who doesn't have a lot of knowledge on OPMV. Just to add my 2 cents Retroviruses dont usually live for very long outside of the host so I dare say transmission from a vector is unlikely, but definitely not impossible. We do still have a lot to learn about OPMV and its transmission.

 

[beeman]

I would strongly recomend that you go into a self imposed lock down of your herps and dont come into contact with any other herps at all, This means no shops with herps etc untill you have a good handle on this problem!
Do not allow anyone into your herps at all!

 

[phantomreptiles]

The reptile mist by aristopet- my friend treated her first snake with it and had similar symptoms - unfortunately it passed away despite everything. There was supposedly an inquiry, as there has been a few complaints, nothing was every found, maybe nothing.......
I also agree strongly with beeman, no contact with other reptiles until this is solved. Good luck

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I guess we overlooked the possibility of poisoning. I was looking at the herp stuff in a shop the other day, and while I didn't take note of the brand, the mite spray they had wasn't Top of Descent, it was something in a pump bottle, and stated on the lable that it should NOT be sprayed directly onto snakes... Would this be 'Repti-Mist'? It raised warning bells with me. I remember one member here spraying a residual cockroach spray in the same room as a monitor, and the monitor became torpid, had no muscle control, and eventually died.

Jamie

 

[lauren.ferguson]

All good suggestions/advice guys. I have quarantined Bruce as much as I can and I never touch my other snake, Sweetheart, in the same day I've had contact with him, even though it's highly likely it's too late, but she hasn't developed any symptoms as yet. I would hate to give what ever he has to another reptile, so I don't take him into the pet stores, and I don't touch anything in there if I go in after a vet trip with him.

Tried to feed him today and he wasn't interested...even quail (his favorite). Over the last couple of days as soon as I take him outside...not neccessarily in sunlight yet...he's all good and normal. As soon as he's back in his tank he's all weird and wont move. I don't get it...I hope someone can help me soon!! I've also noticed that I need to put his head in his water bowl for him to drink. I put him near his bowl after he was moving freely today to test it out and he looked very awkward trying to figure out how to get his head near the water to drink...got it eventually but it didn't look good. Even though he could move normally! He hasn't seemed dehydrated at all but I've now been putting his head in his water bowl for him every time I can (I work from home so he doesn't go 10hrs without water) and he drinks 90% of the time. I don't think that is a good sign =,(

 

[beeman]

What i am saying is YOU should not go into anywhere where herps are kept let alone take your herps untill this problem is sorted, You need to think outside the square as you could very well be carrying anything on your person/clothing from the home environment thus potentially spreading pathogens.
I know this sounds a little dramatic/harsh but its all part of being a responsible herp owner.