Is the hobby on a downward spiral?

[CodeRed]

I don't think it's the greens, the blacks, the blues or oranges and I don't even see any morph market? Where is it?
I hear from a big rodent breeder the very opposite to what you're saying. Perhaps it's because I live on the opposite side of the town. LOL

You should look harder Jag variants have taken over the high end of town and are now commanding the top dollars instead of what was traditionally the place of greens. The top end market hasn't gone down its just shifted focus. And in time the jags will be replaced by something new.

Granted the low end stuff like macs, bredli, coastals etc are now in such over supply that breeders cant get rid of them. But hey we all have adjustments to make if we want to survive.

In terms of the rodent business most cant keep up with demand and have a continuous backlog of orders despite prices having gone up significantly in the past 3 years. What happened to the $1 weaner rat?

 

[liney]

If only WA would allow some of these animals through there would be another resurgence in the hobby as we have very little variety. I know this might be a pipe dream but who knows- There is untapped potential over west.

 

[thecat]

In the same respect the low prices are enticing albeit slowly new people into the hobby. The real problem is with the availability of cheap specimens it ain't that expensive to obtain a pair, pairs are bred .

As a noob I know when looking for a snake I saw two options. There were more cheap snakes than you could poke a stick at from backyard breeders available then and there or there were more expensive snakes that I had to place and order and wait for through breeders with good reputations. I went option 2 for the peace of mind, back up service and the place I ordered from being willing to talk me through all me noob questions and caring enough about his snakes to make sure I was up to scratch before being willing to sell me one.

IMO reptiles will go through a similar way as dogs. There are always mongrels being given away but if you want bloodlines, back up service, guarantees on breeding against genetic defects or designer pooches you pay the extra cash and buy off breeders with solid reputations.

And if you're in it for the money you want to be offering quality service not just animals

 

[Elapidae1]

Codered, what's a Jag worth?

 

[Waterrat]

You should look harder Jag variants have taken over the high end of town and are now commanding the top dollars instead of what was traditionally the place of greens. The top end market hasn't gone down its just shifted focus. And in time the jags will be replaced by something new.

I am aware of that but I wonder how many Jag variants are being produced AND offered on the market. I suspect it would be considerably lower number compared with the huge numbers of greens being produced. Could it be also influencing the high price of Jags? I think the Jag situations is parallel with GTP morphs. They are there but only a few, never advertised, fetching high prices. Just like all GTP morph breeders are holding onto the "best of the litter", Jag breeders would be doing the same. What do you think?

 

[Serpentes]

Steve: Costs for a jag are >$3000 for a nice one that doesn't spin much yet. Look at Southern Cross Reptiles, they sponsor this site and breed lots of Jags. I got banned for suggesting it once before.

 

[Tassie97]

liney check what tasmainians can keep then you have nothing to complain about!!!

 

[Fruitbat]

Reptile Industry????????
Ostrich farming!!!!!

 

[Elapidae1]

As a noob I know when looking for a snake I saw two options. There were more cheap snakes than you could poke a stick at from backyard breeders available then and there or there were more expensive snakes that I had to place and order and wait for through breeders with good reputations. I went option 2 for the peace of mind, back up service and the place I ordered from being willing to talk me through all me noob questions and caring enough about his snakes to make sure I was up to scratch before being willing to sell me one.

IMO reptiles will go through a similar way as dogs. There are always mongrels being given away but if you want bloodlines, back up service, guarantees on breeding against genetic defects or designer pooches you pay the extra cash and buy off breeders with solid reputations.

And if you're in it for the money you want to be offering quality service not just animals

The thing with dogs is it's generally easy to pick a purebred, snake bloodlines are already heavily muddied and difficult to distinguish. To sell a purebred dog with a certificate it needs to meet strict guidelines, it would be impossible to enforce this with snakes as they're to variable. As an example you may have purchased from a reputable breeder but then breed with any old snake those snakes would only be as good as your word.

 

[Elapidae1]

Reptile Industry????????
Ostrich farming!!!!!

?????????

 

[Fruitbat]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a Jag? I've noticed many references but no real description. Also I see on SXR site RPMs any light to shed on them?

 

[thecat]

The thing with dogs is it's generally easy to pick a purebred, snake bloodlines are already heavily muddied and difficult to distinguish.

Bloodline was only 1 example of why people choose their breeder, probably a poor example due to my lack of knowledge.

The last bit about service was the most important bit, I think

 

[Waterrat]

We don't really want this thread to be closed.
Can we stick to the topic please?

Fruitbat, this is not about ostrich farming, believe me.

 

[Fruitbat]

The reference to Ostrich farming...... An unfortunate business started years ago many people invested a great deal of money with promises of Grand returns. As we all know, if you sell anything which can breed someone else will also breed them. If the breeding continues at a faster rate than the market demands, the bottom falls out of the industry!
I was in Africa (the natural home of the ostrich) 1989-92 and saw farms with many dying and dead birds due to the crash of the industry! If you can't maintain a farm with ridiculously low wages there's no cash in it!!!

I'm not saying Herp IS ostrich farming. Just that if you go into it with starry eyes with dollar signs in them then you may just end up burnt.

As long as you treat it as the hobby it is you will love it.

 

[Wookie]

If only bugga all reptiles were bred for a few years,then maybe there may be a increase in sales,.

The only problem is the lifespan of the reptiles. I reckon you'd have to wait 20 odd years to see the change from that few year low breeding period

 

[Waterrat]

If you were a higher end breeder who had paid substantial money for pairs of some of the more top end morphs or breeds and with the drop in prices, some would consider it fair to say the hobby is in a downward spiral.

If you were mid level making a bit of pocket money and subsidizing your hobby by paying a few expenses, then you may have found it a bit more difficult to move animals and had to drop prices but still made ends meet, that would be a plateau.

If you were just starting out in the hobby with a first snake say and along with all the other people in the same boat who are able to afford cheaper animals and indulge in their interests by expanding collections and attracting new people to the hobby it may be fair to say the hobby is growing.

Steve, I have a different opinion on this. The higher end animals are still selling and for a good price. Someone mentioned Jags @$3K, greens are still selling for a fair price and of course the morphs are right up there as someone said. I would have thought it's the breeders producing the low end animals that may perceive the hobby as being on a downward spiral more than anyone else. Or is my logic up side down?

 

[Elapidae1]

In all honesty being in WA I haven't been exposed to the market in the same way as most people over east, I pasted my post from another forum which was used more as an explanation of plateauing but I guess it still reflects how I perceive the hobby and industry. This is from the point of view of someone that has no intention on making money from the breeding of reptiles. Over here they have become much cheaper and it makes it much easier for people like myself to engage in the hobby so I would say it's still growing. As I said on the other forum. I think it depends on each individuals view of and expectations of what they want vfrom the hobby as to whether they would perceive it to be rising, falling, or plateauing.

 

[da_donkey]

My concern to the hobby being in a downward spiral is maybe more of a moral (if thats even the right word) one.

I remember back in the day when there was only a handfull of people in the country that you could phone to talk herps with and the parks and zoos that were around were very hesitant to give out any information (there secrets).

When a big day out was going to a zoo just to see a GTP in the flesh!!!!! and owning a high yellow diamond was a very proud achivment!!!! a jungle with some weird striping WOOO HOOO!!!!!!

So many of us keepers DREAMT of one day owning the holly grail.......our ver own GTP.

I must say that i was a little surprised at the "failure to catch on" (for lack of a better word) of the RSP within the later years of our expansion of the hobby.

And really really disapointed with the entire JAG thing.............Is this what our hobby has come to??????? The new Holy grail of the Australian herp scene is a "muddied" at best background of a snake thats sibs are being knocked on the head whilst the prettiest looking regardless of the health issues are fetching big $$$$$$$ and the newer younger herpers are aspirring to these animals and dreaming about hatching a 2 headed 3 tailed RP snake so they can chase the big $$$$$$$$

I dont keep any jags myself as i have changed the way i feel about them, but lots of my friends keep/breed them for whatever there reasons are.

I dont want to turn this into a pro JAG anti JAG argument........its just another view on our hobby being in a downward spiral.

I have made good money in the past breeding herps and i have spent a bloody hell of alot also, but i have always had a real income and did the herp thing as a passion, so im more worried about the direction of herps as opposed to market saturation or industry fall over.

these times are a changing.


donks

 

[Kurto]

This is definitely more of a case of supply and demand....

Everything is in great supply... Things like locale type greens, RPM's and even some lines of jungles are still fetching a higher price..

I say dig in and carve a niche for yourself.... Theres a new generation of herpers in primary school as I type!

 

[da_donkey]

well if true locals are still fetching high prices no wonder people are illeaglly poaching.

has it come full circle, are we needing to tahe from the wild to fix up our muddy mistakes of the past?

donks