Is the hobby on a downward spiral?

[kupper]

This is definitely more of a case of supply and demand....

Everything is in great supply... Things like locale type greens, RPM's and even some lines of jungles are still fetching a higher price..

I say dig in and carve a niche for yourself.... Theres a new generation of herpers in primary school as I type!

couldn't agree more with your post

Business 101 - Find a niche and stick with it , if you can't find one make one

 

[JasonL]

I think it's great that the money is fading out of the hobby, whilst it is great to make some cash from your herps, I'd still prefer to see people keep herps for the love of the animal, not because what it will make them next season....

 

[junglepython2]

I think it's great that the money is fading out of the hobby, whilst it is great to make some cash from your herps, I'd still prefer to see people keep herps for the love of the animal, not because what it will make them next season....

I agree. I don't know why there is this need to 'grow' the hobby. It just attracts tools to the hobby who are in it for the wrong reasons.

 

[Laghairt]

There will always be niches in the market that can be exploited for a profit and it's likely that most of these niches will be based around unusual morphs. Personally I think this is a good thing as the less our pets look like wild herps the better .

The problems with the market for GTPs for instance is that although there is certainly variation among individual specimens, the majority are simply pure green pythons. So instead of buying a GTP from a reputable breeder for thousands of dollars, Joe the herper could collect them from the wild or obtain them through other illegal means and get an animal that looks virtually the same as one bred by a "high end" breeder. Over time this black market has created enormous downward pressure on prices in a very short space of time.

The market for rare morphs is very different and allows breeders to create a niche that will be more insulated from the goings on in the black market.

I think the future for reptiles lies in the unusual morphs that will continue to demand high prices. Reptiles are great pets in modern times where the people will not have the space or time to keep dogs, cats and other traditional pets.

Personally I have little interest in morphs as I derive pleasure from other aspects of reptile keeping, which I'm sure most people on APS can relate to. Lower prices will allow more people like me to simply enjoy keeping reptiles and leave the people who are more profit driven to focus on other sections of the industry.

couldn't agree more with your post

Business 101 - Find a niche and stick with it , if you can't find one make one

 

[krefft]

Yes Jason, I'm with you.
It's obscene that a baby snake should sell for $10,000.
Good luck to those who were lucky enough to ride that wave but it had to come to an end. I'm sure cheaper prices will attract more people than we loose.
The past few years we have all just bred as much as we could, and they all got sucked up. Well now we'll just need to be more decerning about what we breed and when we breed it. That can't be a bad thing.

 

[hornet]

I'm sure cheaper prices will attract more people than we loose

which then gives us more people breeding these cheap animals and adding to our already over saturated market

 

[Laghairt]

I don't think there is anything wrong with high prices for reptiles, if people are willing to pay $10,000 for a snake then good luck to them. "High end" specimens are important to the hobby as it attracts people who would not be interested otherwise. More people in the hobby is not a bad thing.

 

[krefft]

Maybe, but the past 5 people I have sold or given snakes to have absolutely no interest in breeding them. They want a pet snake, nothing more.

 

[chase77]

Being a noob I thinks it great that in a couple of years I'll be able to own a GTP. If i had of got into herps 10 years ago there would have been no way i would ever had forked out $10000+ for any animal. And surely the more folk like myself that can own such a stunning snake can only promote the hobby

 

[Laghairt]

Totally agree chase, more keepers will support more suppliers of herp products and that will be better for the hobby as a whole.

There will be albino GTPs available on the Australian market in the next few years and those will be the new "must have" pythons; then the whole cycle will start all over again until something more fashionable turns up.

 

[PythonRob]

Thanks Michael,
Great topic and could be lots of discussion. I have gone the full circle for over 25 yrs from 2 Coastal Carpets up to 50 pythons and now back down to only a few.

I like to think of myself as honest and I have met lots of reptile breeders as honest and not so honest. There are lots of people who think quick bucks can be made with little and little regard to the reptiles and after many years now I hope DECC (in NSW) decide to make some changes (I would be willing to help consult to them if they wish).

Either this is to be a hobby or a business. I have travelled the world and seen reptiles/exhibits/shows held in many countries and we are years behind them.

I would be happy to volunteer to be part of a consultative committee to work with DECC in establishing a standard for private/amateur keeping and business/professional keeping to help with the industry and look at uniform standards accross the states of Australia.

It is time for keepers to become responsible and contact the relevant authorities before they impose new rules upon us which may put us back in the dark ages again.

If the Administrators wish to contact me then happy to discuss.

PS: Michael, I like your reptiles and will likely contact you in future for a pair of GTP. Dont know you yet but they look great and worth the money for good quality reptiles. Cheers, Rob

 

[mrs_davo]

This is just like the bird market took off during the 80's & 90's with everyone breeding birds & mutation types & selling them for plenty. Now that market has come back to the field. There is still plenty of pet & breeding birds sold today, but the breeders do not expect a high price & do it because they like the hobby. If it makes enough for them to buy their seed & trade future breeders they are doing OK.

Not too long ago (about 4to5years I think) Reptiles Australia Mag published a finding on the growing herp industry/hobby & from this finding it was growing at an enourmous rate. At this stage there was still entrepeners in the industry selling reptiles for extremely high prices. Now extremely high prices only stay there while there is a demand for them.
Now that the demand has been filled for the high price snakes, prices will drop of course due to the fact that there is more people out there now breeding all these highly sought after snakes.
Some people have made much money from this industry in recent times. It will not allways be cherry red roses.
The reptile industry/hobby will keep going as it has been started now. Maybe the high price snakes will not allways be there. Only 6 years ago you would have to pay $9000 for a baby GTP now you can get for $1500 & from good stock I believe.

I for one hope that the EXPOS don't faulter because that is where we will grow & teach people about our hobby.

CHEERS
Ian

 

[mrs_davo]

With saying what I have said, How can you go past giving people like S.Stone & P.Krause accalades for what they have given to the industry. There are people out there that do give a rats **** to keep us herping. & witout this type people the industry would not be the same. & you too Michael.
Cheers
Ian

 

[Elapidae1]

I think we need to stop referring to the hobby and the industry as one and the same. The reptile industry is driven by the hobbyist.

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

I think more accurate stats as to the welfare of our hobby / industry is the number of people getting into it. I guess the best representation of that would be the number of licence applications..In my opinion the reason prices have plummeted is all of the above but also that the whole world is in recession, especially usa. It would be interesting to see the stats for licence applications, if anyone knows? I think the hobby will bounce back once the economy takes an upturn. Probably not to where it was with the huge prices but something reasonable...

 

[deebo]

I guess it all depends who you speak to - im sure some people are still selling a lot of animals and making good $$s from it, while im sure others are struggling to move animals and making no money.

Michael - can i ask why you dropped the price of your animals so much this season? Unless you had serious problems moving your animals last season I cant see why you would do it. I know I have no say in what price you put on your animals but dont understand the massive drop in one year.

 

[guzzo]

I saw Darwins in the NT advertised for $50 each.
I own 2 pair of Darwins. One Albino and one Standard.
If I had to choose only one snake to keep I would without question choose my standard Darwin male.
I don’t care what people say the value of my snakes are or should be.
I have the luxury of not having to sell or breed snakes to make a living or keep my interest in the hobby.
If snakes were worth no money and could only be swapped or traded I would still love the hobby as much as I do now.
I suppose a test as to if people are truly interested in the hobby and not just the money is to ask - if snakes were worth nothing would you still be as passionate about keeping them as you are now?
I keep my snakes because I love keeping them…I am not worried about the market or what they should be worth or the bloke next door is selling them for.
I think to say the hobby is going downhill because some aren’t getting the money they think they should be getting makes me question what the most important thing in this hobby is.
I can only speak for myself and say I keep my snakes for the love of the hobby not money.
But that’s just my opinion………….

 

[mrs_davo]

I think we need to stop referring to the hobby and the industry as one and the same. The reptile industry is driven by the hobbyist.

I cannot understand what you meah by this.
Without the hobbyist or backyard breeders as some call them there would not be an industry, IE- cages, ligthts,food etc.

This in itself creates an industry underneath an industry/hobby.

 

[waruikazi]

I think the over supply of reptiles at the moment hasn't just been about people wanting to make money. Over the years that i have been part of our hobby i have seen what i would almost call an arrogance (not quite, maybe a hiatus) amongst most keepers. It somehow seems to be that if you haven't bred your animals then you aren't an accomplished keeper. It was almost like breeding graduated you from noob to accomplished status. Which simply isn't the case.

My interest in the keeping side of our hobby has definately wained, i have given away most of what i have kept mainly for work commitment reasons but also because i don't find them that interesting anymore. My passion for feild herping in my area and the ecology, biology and evolution of my local species has grown exponentially. Now that i get out into the bush and watch these animals in the wild i don't feel like i need to keep them in boxes for my own selfish purposes.

 

[Elapidae1]

I cannot understand what you meah by this.
Without the hobbyist or backyard breeders as some call them there would not be an industry, IE- cages, ligthts,food etc.

This in itself creates an industry underneath an industry/hobby.

The hobby has the ability to thrive whether the industry is stable or not. The title of the thread is " Is the hobby on a downward spiral? The answer no. Is the industry in a downward spiral? Well, I don't know, I'm a hobbyist.