Is the hobby on a downward spiral?

[Colin]

then what the [deleted] is the point of a gtp being a gtp if it is white...? shall we change its name? to wtp. white trash python.

I didnt realise albino green tree pythons were white?

 

[charri37]

i agree completely CamdeJong, i have been trying to sell a coastal for a few months now with no luck. it seems like the interest in them is just not there any more (however i would never leave it with the RSPCA or dump it in the wild lol!)

 

[junglepython2]

Albino means no melanin, in mammals there isn't any other pigments so you get white. However reptiles have other pigments so albino's are often not white.

 

[mattmc]

still not much difference between white and white with a "ruddy or yellow hue". aesthetically pleasing, for some? yes. for me? no. genetic mistake? remains a yes.

 

[Kurto]

Is this thread on a downward spiral?

 

[Laghairt]

I think that's the one thing we can all agree on Kurto.

 

[Red-Ink]

Is this thread on a downward spiral?

:lol::lol:

 

[Waterrat]

Close it mods, no point in continuing.

In response to some comments by my detractors (on other site) I would like to make it absolutely clear that my opening post was not a complaint, I wasn't winging or drawing attention to myself or to my dealings with snakes. I thought it was an interesting and timely topic to discuss now that the hatching season is in full swing. Thanks to those who took it that way and contributed with relevant and meaningful comments.

 

[ozziepythons]

No doubt the hobby of reptile keeping will change and change again, as time marches on. I think there will be a distinction between keepers who are all about morphs and those who breed pedigree reptiles as it progresses. What seems to irk some of the more experienced herpers is that 20 years ago those in the hobby side of things were genuine about their interest in herpetology in general, and nowdays there has been an influx of new keepers who are more about morphs, husbandry and are less about the natural history of their reptiles. There seems to be more online chatter about the prices of reptiles rather than aspects of ecology, conservation or taxonomy. The new generation of field herpetologists may well avoid anything to do with the hobby of reptile keeping if it lacks integrity.

 

[FAY]

3 things can be guaranteed in life.

Death, Taxes and Change.

Change can be a good thing...all depends on how you handle it.

 

[ezekiel86]

It's a catch 22. We are desperately trying to recruit new herpers trough expos, pet shops, forums, etc, because we believe the growth will support the hobby. These new recruits will buy X number of animals, breed them in a year or two and then try to sell XXXXXXX number of animals. Is this good or bad for the hobby? Just a thought.

Good point ...

 

[Radar]

I guess it depends what people class as good or bad for the hobby....
Everyone's views of what the hobby needs to be 'good' are totally different. Some people think it needs new herpers to spread the word, some people think it's better left the the knowledgeable old timers with the experience. Some think people need to be able to make a business and support a family from it, some want it to pay for itself, and others are happy to not make any money from it and give away excess stock. Some think it needs a conservation value whereas others think the hobby should be totally removed from any conservation efforts.... I guess people need to decide whether they are in it for the 'hobby' or the 'industry'.

On the note of prices. Why does every animal have to be worth a mint for the hobby to be in good shape? In all reality, why should a hatchling snake, a native species that is commonly available, cost 10K? In this hobby, people spend very large sums of money on animals without batting an eye. My ute cost 10K when I bought it almost new 6 years ago. That car has literally taken me to find more species of reptiles in more area's of Australia then I even new existed. A trip to the cape to see gtp's in the wild never cost me any more than $800, and I've seen plenty more than just a couple of greens. Now-days, Im more about a holistic approach to reptiles then I used to be. I want to see them in the wild, watch their natural behaviors and appreciate them as a pinnacle of what nature has come up with over millions of years. That's not to say I don't keep, currently the only 2 rooms in the house not floor to ceiling with reptiles (snakes, dragons, geckos, monitors, skinks) are the toilet and the bathroom.

If there were GTP's available for $500 I'd buy one tonight. I've read 'The more complete chondro' front to back and have plenty of experience with touchy snakes. Patience is a virtue. Just because people have the money to spend on expensive snakes doesn't mean they aren't a 'fad' herper, and just because people refuse to pay thousands for a snake doesn't mean they aren't serious. Admittedly, low prices and free animals will encourage spur of the moment purchases and kids that are in it for the 'cool' factor, but they will also make the hobby more accessible to those who aren't necessarily well off, but that have the passion and interest that could lead them into a life of adventure.

I've given away my fare share of animals, and every single one of them is loved and cared for by it's owner. I know this because I don't give animals away to anyone, only to people who are truly interested. Spend a while talking to the prospective new owners of your animal....

 

[Laghairt]

Nice post rednut! BTW, if you want to give me any of your levis levis hatchlings I promise to love them

 

[Radar]

Pm sent.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

You have just got to love the hobby anyway.

 

[Poggle]

Michael,
You are good at bringing up these sort of topics

I do agree with you mate, there may be the impression of a changing herp world. I selective breed like most, and most of what i breed ( to a limit ) i am able to keep if need be.

But there has been a huge amount of flooding on the market. Although i am still struggling to find both skinks and geckos available close to home. I have offered to trade some of my best snakes and still nothing, so this is a worry to me with the market.

I am keen to see how it pans out. Things often spiral out of control before correcting them selves. Never give up on your greens mate, you have some of the nicest i have seen. Once i was known for my blonde macs, now everyone has them, once i was known for my monitors, now everyone breeds them too. So i just sit in my own lil corner and do my own thing.

I still believe there are a lot of passionate people out there and i will always offer my advice where i can and will even give herps to the "RIGHT" deserving people to see the happiness on their face.

In the mean time, i love my herps, i'll always have them, and like you michael i also think it iwll be very interesting.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Waterrat]

Thanks Michael,
I am doing just that - getting as much as I can (in way of knowledge and experience) out of my monotypic collection and I am enjoying it. As the market is shrinking, I have to change my plans and concentrate on smaller, selective projects because unlike you, I can't keep everything my snakes produce and there is no point in continuing a "large production" if I can call it that. I am not upset about it, certainly not winging, as some implied, the only thing I am unhappy about is that I won't be able to keep large numbers of juveniles as I was planning to do. To investigate e.g. microhabitat preferences of yellow juveniles, which I was hoping to get my teeth into this year requires large sample size and replications. What would I then do with 40 or 50 yearlings? Before someone puts forward a smart advice like "give them away" or sell them for $500.- each, I am not here to ruin the market any further for other people.
Scaling down on the natives is the plan and I will keep myself busy with my non-natives for the next two or three years. I believe in "natural cycles", things will change, that's for sure.
On the money side of it, looking at the prospect of the proposed "minimum cage sizes" in NSW, I might start selectively breed for miniature GTPs, like bonsai, you know? LOL

 

[kupper]

Thanks Michael,
I am doing just that - getting as much as I can (in way of knowledge and experience) out of my monotypic collection and I am enjoying it. As the market is shrinking, I have to change my plans and concentrate on smaller, selective projects because unlike you, I can't keep everything my snakes produce and there is no point in continuing a "large production" if I can call it that. I am not upset about it, certainly not winging, as some implied, the only thing I am unhappy about is that I won't be able to keep large numbers of juveniles as I was planning to do. To investigate e.g. microhabitat preferences of yellow juveniles, which I was hoping to get my teeth into this year requires large sample size and replications. What would I then do with 40 or 50 yearlings? Before someone puts forward a smart advice like "give them away" or sell them for $500.- each, I am not here to ruin the market any further for other people.
Scaling down on the natives is the plan and I will keep myself busy with my non-natives for the next two or three years. I believe in "natural cycles", things will change, that's for sure.
On the money side of it, looking at the prospect of the proposed "minimum cage sizes" in NSW, I might start selectively breed for miniature GTPs, like bonsai, you know? LOL

:lol: well they are green michael , new exciting times ahead for you I gather ?

how does one trim the roots of a python ?

 

[hissnbits]

The market place is certainly evolving!! It is certainly harder when the market is "flooded" with available animals, and if course the downward pricing. Just wondering on some positives. For one I think that husbandry, care and knowledge has been improving and hence why so many people are breeding. There is much greater choice for buyers, yes of course there is a price incentive, but greater choice naturally makes it a buyers market. Having both choice and greater affordability (in reality means greater variation in quality and price) should be seen as way of growing the hobby. The issue I feel is that breeding rate has exceeded hobby growth rate. So grow the hobby rate!! It would be interesting to know what percentage of population own reptiles in various markets to get a feel for how Australia fits.

 

[scratchy]

I think it's great that the money is fading out of the hobby, whilst it is great to make some cash from your herps, I'd still prefer to see people keep herps for the love of the animal, not because what it will make them next season....

Totally agree with you. I have been keeping Herps since the early 90's. Never been about the money and still keep some very c ommon species. The last few season I have only been breeding to satify my needs otherwise wont even bother.