Is the hobby on a downward spiral?

[sarah_m]

I would like to see the hobby follow the european market, as well as the US morph market.
I remember seeing some of Brian Fry's photo's at a herp meeting, of the ways retiles are kept in the Netherlands (i think), and it is awsome! Habitats are like a chunk of the animals natural habitat, down to the finest possible detail, including natural light cycles and humidity, weather patterns, etc. They focus on quality rather than quantinty.

I know that this is not necessarily something everyone can practically or financially do, even with my own animals I don't feel experienced enough to undertake such an endeavour at this stage.

But I feel it is perhaps a more positive direction for new herpers (and old) to head in, than just random breeding, especially considering the current flood of common species on the market right now. It's a direction that would require alot of research and understanding of the species in it's wild state, which might encourage some "online experts" to get out there and experience nature, rather than worrying about breeding a species that's got stripes, spots or is purple.

I feel too, that this form of keeping might be more rewarding in the long term than just collecting as many as possible and keeping them in unnatural, stark boxes.

This sort of keeping would probably also stimulate the reptile product industry, which can only be positive for us and out herps.

I think there is space for both approaches within the herp hobby.

 

[mattmc]

I would like to see the hobby follow the european market, as well as the US morph market.
I remember seeing some of Brian Fry's photo's at a herp meeting, of the ways retiles are kept in the Netherlands (i think), and it is awsome! Habitats are like a chunk of the animals natural habitat, down to the finest possible detail, including natural light cycles and humidity, weather patterns, etc. They focus on quality rather than quantinty.

I know that this is not necessarily something everyone can practically or financially do, even with my own animals I don't feel experienced enough to undertake such an endeavour at this stage.

But I feel it is perhaps a more positive direction for new herpers (and old) to head in, than just random breeding, especially considering the current flood of common species on the market right now. It's a direction that would require alot of research and understanding of the species in it's wild state, which might encourage some "online experts" to get out there and experience nature, rather than worrying about breeding a species that's got stripes, spots or is purple.

I feel too, that this form of keeping might be more rewarding in the long term than just collecting as many as possible and keeping them in unnatural, stark boxes.

This sort of keeping would probably also stimulate the reptile product industry, which can only be positive for us and out herps.

I think there is space for both approaches within the herp hobby.

some kind of regulation to enforce such an approach in keeping animals in this way would stop or slow down people breeding annually for cash on the side reasons, and i agree, people would be able to appreciate the reality of the animal.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

Have alook at some of the new threads today & you will see that there is still newcommers to our hobby that need suport.

The hobby/industry may be dying for the absolute peer pinacle of snakes. This was allways going to happen.
Why Bitch about it there is nothing that you can do, accept for support & promote the hobby/industry as you may.

I for one am glad that the hoby/industry has been allowed to show & advance our wares through the Expos.
I dare not say anymore tonight as have been up since 4:30 am & a big day.

 

[FAY]

This is why I think the Expo at the Sydney Royal will be fantastic. OK a lot of us herp people would probably not be interested as there are no sales etc but it takes the hobby out to the greater community. Especially a lot of country folk. A person from Bourke would come to the show to show their produce and have a look at the reptiles as well but no way in the world would they just come down to go to the Castle Hill Expo. This is what the hobby needs now.......to get a lot of new people into the hobby..................

 

[Jungle_Freak]

I think if your heart and desire is in your collection ????
Then it does not matter if prices go up or down .
You will always keep your collection as long as you have the passion to care for your animals.
cheers
Roger

 

[Waterrat]

The prices are now very low and that's what everybody wanted. As a result, most keepers have all the species and numbers they ever wanted and aren't acquiring any more or at least not as much as in the past 4-5 years, hence the plateau the hobby is experiencing now. The trading i.e. selling and buying kept the industry on the move. As buying and selling is in recession, the hobby is starting to have a whole new meaning.

I didn't say in my opening post the the hobby IS on a downward spiral, I put it up as a question for debate.

 

[Poggle]

how does one trim the roots of a python ?

By restricting the size of ones cage it limits it's ability to form correctly and there for grow. This is the quickest way of doing this. Some times though with some not so good side affects on the animals, as restricted joint growth can form other abnormal growths on the animal. The slower procedure for doing this is selective breeding. Keep the runtiest smallest of your hatchlings using them to breed with and keeping the smallest again and so on. There for a very timely procdure but more efficient at "breeding mini herps"

Cheers

 

[wokka]

On the money side of it, looking at the prospect of the proposed "minimum cage sizes" in NSW, I might start selectively breed for miniature GTPs, like bonsai, you know? LOL

The trouble with the draft NSW cage sizes is that a minature GTP will require the same size cage as a full sized GTP. Cage sizes are related to the species and age of the snake rather than the size of the snake.

 

[Waterrat]

Wokka, I thought for a minute you were worried that you may have to start breeding miniature mice and arts. LOL

 

[pythons73]

Years ago ALOT of people had dreams of owning a particular snake,and breed the more common species so to speak so they can afford the more higher end snake(albino-GTP) With the old timers(so to speak) the only way to find out any info was a phone call,now we have all the technolodge in the world to help with any aspects of breeding-keeping reptiles.What i hate, ALOT of people ask Questions, what species-whats the easiest snake to breed without having much knowledge for the basics in reptile keeping..IT DOESNT give you a higher respect in the herp community just because you have breed snakes...Ive seen so many nice snakes that years ago wouldve been snapped up that day,even with the low price on them,now ALOT are not being sold..I do hope more people get in the hobby,and that EVERYMAN and his dog can just appreciate there reptiles instead of breeding them EVERY year...I hope that within a few years were not wondering what the hell happened...

 

[AllThingsReptile]

i dunno about you guys, but i keep herps coz i love them and to me, lower prices mean i can get herps based on how much i like them not based on the price, yes it will make money making almost impossible, but people will still breed
personally i would breed to give my animals a chance at breeding, and to explore different aspects of the hobby, to observe the behavioural changes in the animal once allowed to mate etc etc.....lol

 

[hornet]

i dunno about you guys, but i keep herps coz i love them and to me, lower prices mean i can get herps based on how much i like them not based on the price, yes it will make money making almost impossible, but people will still breed
personally i would breed to give my animals a chance at breeding, and to explore different aspects of the hobby, to observe the behavioural changes in the animal once allowed to mate etc etc.....lol

thats great and all for us keepers who cant afford to fork out thousands but it also allows any tom dick and harry to buy a cheap pair and have a crack at breeding which then means there are snakes that cant be sold. I'm pretty sure someone who buys a cheap pair to try and breed and makes money rather then for the love of the animals is going to properly care for 10-20 snakes he/she cant sell. With the positives comes many negatives

 

[deebo]

David, price is no longer the issue. Some joker on here challenged me by saying: "why don't you sell your greens for five hundred bucks?" The answer is simple - it wouldn't make a smidgen of difference. I wouldn't sell any more for $500.- than I sell for $1500.- That's the trues. Many people are of the opinion that the lowest price is the benchmark .... I always thought that quality sets the benchmark but I was wrong. Not in this game.

So are you saying that you couldnt sell the animals you produced at your previous prices? Not having a go but considering ppl bought them last year and now they are about half price it might leave a bad taste in their mouth? I saw someone one here advertising RPMs at $3000-$3500 and with in a day so, after they have sold some, they are already advertised at $2600.

But i do understand they are your animals and you can do what you want....

Cheers,
Dave

 

[deebo]

i guess what im really asking is that if price makes no differene why cut it in half?

 

[Varanus1]

People like you are the demise of this hobby. I am not sorry if I offended you - I spoke my mind.

Perhaps just a little bit rough? He is just a youngster afterall, and still has a lot to learn. Although I agree that indiscriminate breeding does no favours for the hobby, I doubt turning away young and budding herpers will either.

I guess this is something I like about keeping elapids - the prices are fairly constant, the "fads" are shortlived (due to a limited number of buyers), and those keeping the animals are typically only in it for the animals - if it was for any other reason, they wouldn't last long

 

[longqi]

If you are playing with slitherers for money Ok Now is not a good time

But if you are in it for education or just fun this is a great time to be playing

 

[bigi]

Very few people or companies are in the industry for profit reasons. Most of which sell mainly products not animals. I wish them luck as the to be in an industry you must make a profit to survive, and most have probably been so for 20 years or so and i believe with so much experience they should make a profit as their profession.

I for one, as many love to keep my little critters, and get alot of enjoyment from them. Thats it for me. Too many people here must believe that for enjoyment you must pass on an animal at a profit, or see that if it breeds i need to recoup thier outlay. Forget it, it will not happen for most. Enjoy the animals and the keeping of them.

I truly hope that if people continue to over breed for hobby demands, that an organisation is started to re-establish the animals in areas that they have been wiped out of in the wild. That would be a an awasome outcome.

 

[Waterrat]

So are you saying that you couldnt sell the animals you produced at your previous prices? Not having a go but considering ppl bought them last year and now they are about half price it might leave a bad taste in their mouth? I saw someone one here advertising RPMs at $3000-$3500 and with in a day so, after they have sold some, they are already advertised at $2600.

But i do understand they are your animals and you can do what you want....

Cheers,
Dave

Last year was last year, this year is this year, next year will be different again. Isn't it reality? .... not having a go? Common Dave.

 

[bpb02]

Next year I was planning on breeding a pair of real blonde spottes and 2 pair of womas but I now have the mind set that there will be 1000'sbof each for sale so I just won't pair them up. It is a pitty because it was going to be my first year of breeding and I would love to learn that side of rep keeping but I can not afford to look after that many young if I can not sell them. So I am one first time breeder who has been put off the thought of breeding due to the current climate of snakes

 

[ellis01]

Well said mate I agree with you there