It's a whale of a time - Should Japan be allowed?

[Midol]

Are you really arguing that animals have not become extinct from land clearing that has been done so that the land can be farmed? Do i really need to find you a referenc e for that?

Ignore me. For some reason I thought you meant us farming something like cows, would lead to the extinction of cows.

Yes - I have no idea what I was thinking at the time.

Crop farming would also do the same thing though.


Slim6y, we can also claim the Japanese have no rights in Japan but that doesn't make it true... They are crying that we can't govern that water. In reality if we choose not to (govern it) then there is NO point proclaiming it as a sanctuary. I wouldn't support military action over this but rather trade sanctions. Though we probably rely on Japan more than they rely on us.

Coxy, thanks! I knew the fines were incredibly severe for hunting endangered sharks but wasn't sure of the exact fine.

 

[IsK67]

Supply references to the fact that animals are extinct due to farming.

[SIZE=-1]Thylacine?

http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/WebPages/BHAN-54F4ED?open



[/SIZE]

 

[IsK67]

Should Australia allow commercial whaling if humpbacks are spared?

Should Australia allow commercial whaling if humpbacks are spared?

Vote now
http://today.ninemsn.com.au/ (Link top centre)

 

[slim6y]

Should Australia allow commercial whaling if humpbacks are spared?

Vote now
http://today.ninemsn.com.au/ (Link top centre)

I am very suprised at my time of voting 3% said YES!!!

Hmmmmm

Anyhow - who watched foriegn corrospondent last night... any details on whaling we should know about. I missed the programme

 

[waruikazi]

It was about the tuna fishing that the japanese have been doing in Aussie waters. They had been taking over their legal quota for years and they admitted to it. Now their quota has effectively been halved.

There was no content on whaling.

 

[slim6y]

It was about the tuna fishing that the japanese have been doing in Aussie waters. They had been taking over their legal quota for years and they admitted to it. Now their quota has effectively been halved.

There was no content on whaling.

If you half a countries quota that have already been cheating - then what can you do?

The one thing that makes me sick is the pure lack of hindsight (common amongst the human race). But the pure lack stops people from thinking sustainable!

Silly silly sillyness!

 

[Midol]

I am so angry.

After reminding everyone to watch it I forgot. Now I have to buy the DVD as I really wanted to see that episode.

For the poll, if the only new condition is that humpbacks are spared then my vote says No. When they can introduce a plan that would be sustainable and a humane method of killing the whales I'll say yes. Sadly though, I just don't know if it possible to hunt them sustainably due to the nature of how the reproduce.

 

[grimbeny]

The fact that food in Japan is just so expencive makes ventures such as these so financially viable that fines just arnt enough of a threat.

 

[slim6y]

The fact that food in Japan is just so expencive makes ventures such as these so financially viable that fines just arnt enough of a threat.

So would act of war be more viable - ie shooting down their ships?

Yes - I am fully aware of the price of food - take for example fresh caught coral trout. Something that the japanese are unable to fish because of the 200 mile (km??) exclusion zone.

Caught in the morning, packaged mid morning, flying to japan by midday, offloaded after the flight and purchased for $100s per kg (if not $1000s).

But... one blemish... regardless of how wonderful this fish is that fish is tossed aside and not payed for... Wasted... gone to the drain... Wasted.. no one will touch it... A perfectly good animal, killed and thrown away. A culture filled with wasteful attitudes and poor hindsight.

 

[grimbeny]

Your right a diplomatic solution is required. Blowing up the ships is obviously not going to help as this would just reduce the amount of whale meet coming into japan, theirfor increasing prices and making it more worth the risk. Im just wondering, is the japanese representative at the international whaling commision part of the government or another body?

Their are many social dramas such as these going on allthrough out the world. Many diamonds (not a large percentage but still many) on the market today come from war torn countries within africa. The money generated from the sale of diamonds goes towards the heads of different radical groups which choose to purchase weapons so that they can obliterate their oponents. This is a social drama that is really difficult to solve.

 

[grimbeny]

Really the only solution is to reduce the market for such items.

 

[slim6y]

Really the only solution is to reduce the market for such items.

Over supply (sarcasm)...

How do you reduce the market for such....? Put tiger back on the menu - then they'll want surf and turf - yummy, tiger and whale blubber sarny!!!

Reducing the market may involve education - showing people how they are hurting a wonderful beast... funny how we don't do similar eco tours to cattle farms...

I am at my wits end on how you can reduce this supply. Any suggestions?

 

[grimbeny]

I think education would be one contributing factor in reducing the whale market.

Im not really sure at what the solution is either.

 

[cris]

There is nothing wrong with commercial whaling as long as it is sustainable.

Now for my controversial statement. I honestly beleive that eating a wild animal can be far less cruel than eating farmed animals. They will have potentially lived a completely natural life with everthing they need up to that point they get killed. And i beleive that they would have been 'happy' (if animals feel such emtions) in there life. Which is alot more that i think can be said about most farmed animals.

Very well put that is exactly how i think, IMO sustainably harvesting animals is the most environmentally friendly/humane way to get tasty meat.

I personally think its sad how many ppl are ignorant enough to think whales are a special case and think they are more threatened or special than other seafood.

I think it would be good for Australia to get some evidence to back up its anti whaling position.

Are the species japan is hoping to harvest endangered?

 

[slim6y]

Very well put that is exactly how i think, IMO sustainably harvesting animals is the most environmentally friendly/humane way to get tasty meat.

I personally think its sad how many ppl are ignorant enough to think whales are a special case and think they are more threatened or special than other seafood.

I think it would be good for Australia to get some evidence to back up its anti whaling position.

Are the species japan is hoping to harvest endangered?

I've been waiting for your insightful comments finally you're here!

There are some species (humpbacks) that are considered endangered that the Japanese wish to hunt.

I recall not that long ago about giant squid being on the menu - and similar arguments were made here - but one thing is that sperm whales eat large amounts of giant squid and apparently sperm whales are in fairly large populations...

So something must be sustaining their diet!

I think that sustainability and whales is a misguided possibility - I don't think whales can 'bounce back' without a complete ban and stop of hunting!!!

But at the same token - humane - let's talk orca here... Orcas hunt the calf of baby whales - they chase the mother and the calf until the calf is too tired to continue then the orcas torture the calf till it dies - while the mother watches on... and can do nothing!

Is that any more humane than harpooning? Yes it's natural - but i thnik the point is we all want a quick and painless death - and evidence suggests current methods do not provide a whale with such.

So even with sustainability can we really allow this type of slaughter to go ahead?

 

[Hickson]

The point is, we can't conduct an accurate census on whale populations because we can't count them accurately. All we can do is make a rough guesstimate based on research and records.

Whales are listed as endangered when the populations start to decline and the factor causing the decline are unidentified, or can't be halted. Taking the species off the endangered list requires proof that the decline has halted - and the pressures causing the decline removed - and the population is on the increase. Again, very hard to prove without accurate counts.

And to cap it off, the Japanese whalers release numbers of whales they have killed for research (although whether it is accurate or not is another matter), but don't release any other data on where the whales were 'harvested', when, age groups, sex ratios etc.

As I said before, the entire world is waiting to see the reports of 50 years of whale 'research'.



Hix

 

[Midol]

Very well put that is exactly how i think, IMO sustainably harvesting animals is the most environmentally friendly/humane way to get tasty meat.

I personally think its sad how many ppl are ignorant enough to think whales are a special case and think they are more threatened or special than other seafood.

I think it would be good for Australia to get some evidence to back up its anti whaling position.

Are the species japan is hoping to harvest endangered?

I've already mentioned Tuna.

If this thread was on sea food I'd have a lot more to say - but whenever we get OT the thread gets closed so I have tried to stay on topic