Just Discovered A Bad Side To The Hobby . . .

[Callum Dureau]

But that's america for you... not being racist, but when it comes to reptiles, they... are not very bright. Most of the morphs they have there are a result of inbreeding.

 

[ShaunMorelia]

...Most of the morphs they have there are a result of inbreeding.

I think you'll find that most of the mutations that are in the Ball python Market are sourced directly from the wild and imported.
While you may also be correct as all recessive mutations require a certain degree of inbreeding to replicate.

Inbreeding in reptiles is a whole other topic of discussion.

 

[jase13]

I totally agree with u cement. Unfortunatly i live in gippsland victoria, so i dont get to see any wild pythons down here. But i do love seeing the massive differences between tiger snakes around my area.
And i cant agree more with the point about hybrids. People want to charge massive money for cross bred snakes, and i cant help but think its a mongrel. No one pays top dollar for a cross bred dog! I know natural morphs are out there, but the problem i have (and its a personal thing, not saying its right or wrong, each to their own) but cross breeding or in breeding to get a fancy pattern or colour just isnt appealing to me. But i spose theres a market out there or there wouldnt be so many out there

 

[Nero Egernia]

Personally, many of the albino morphs don't do much for me. Scaleless types even less. If I didn't want an animal with scales, I would not be interested in reptiles.

Wild types are just as beautiful and I try to source animals with a pure, or close to, locality, even if I have to source wild caught animals. I like having some of the "wild" close to home, in a way. But I always feel a deep sense of guilt that my silly ideals (especially after reading your post, cement) may result with the possible taking of an animal from the wild due to my creating a demand for it. Sometimes I even consider tossing it all out the window and acquiring an animal from unknown origins just to reduce the demand for wild caught animals. I probably should but my selfish reasons always get in the way. But out of all the morphs out there, I have to say that I am a sucker for the dark, or melanistic critters. Luckily for me, they occur in the species that naturally already live here in Western Australia!

 

[dragonlover1]

Personally, many of the albino morphs don't do much for me. Scaleless types even less. If I didn't want an animal with scales, I would not be interested in reptiles.

I'm with you on that one,I started with beardies and still have them.Now they have silkbacks & dunners ;if I wanted skinks I would get skinks.I love beardies for their roughness and their sandstone colours.Yes I have a hypo and a leatherback but still prefer the normals.

 

[WeirdzandBeardz]

Hi guys, long time reader first time commenter! I think this is a brilliant thread to get involved in because it sums up a lot if my thoughts on the hobby.

I'm based in Sydney and I've been in the hobby around three years. I agree that there is a divide between the purists and morph breeders in many ways. My major interest is in small dragons and unique species. If you asked me when I got into the hobby if I'd have some of the species I do now I'd say there was no chance they'd be in captivity or easy to find for sale.

A lot of people with collections of purists animals and locales keep to themselves, for two reasons I believe - 1) They don't want to get robbed! 2) They don't want to get swamped with scummy new hobbiest wanting a cheap deal on a finiky species.

A lot of the less uncommon species and locales I've acquired have all been through non-public sales (all legal on license stuff!) where someone has been like 'would you like this species?'

Where I am going with this is that morph breeders will absolutely cram down everyone's throat the 'next big thing' to generate a cult fan club and then they can sell anything at an inflated price because everyone wants to be cool. With so many purists keeping quite there is rarely any attention on uncommon species and nobody knows or cares about them. I think if people start talking about them and drawing attention back to them a lot of things could easily take off!

For instance I recently posted on a public Facebook page I'd hatched a baby Burtons. I kid you not I had about ten people message me wanting to buy some, one of which was asking in behalf of a zoo.

I think people need to get inspired to want an animal. The sad reality is Facebook (which is where morphs really develop cult followings) dictates that for most of this generation as very few of them will ever actually get out and herp to see wild animals.

Also, two cents on Americans and ball pythons. I'm on an American Facebook group where an admin buys wild type ball pythons nobody wants to live feed to his cobra. The American hobby is about a million times more disgusting than Australia.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B6 using Tapatalk

 

[Nero Egernia]

A lot of people with collections of purists animals and locales keep to themselves, for two reasons I believe - 1) They don't want to get robbed! 2) They don't want to get swamped with scummy new hobbiest wanting a cheap deal on a finiky species.

A lot of the less uncommon species and locales I've acquired have all been through non-public sales (all legal on license stuff!) where someone has been like 'would you like this species?'

Where I am going with this is that morph breeders will absolutely cram down everyone's throat the 'next big thing' to generate a cult fan club and then they can sell anything at an inflated price because everyone wants to be cool. With so many purists keeping quite there is rarely any attention on uncommon species and nobody knows or cares about them. I think if people start talking about them and drawing attention back to them a lot of things could easily take off!

For instance I recently posted on a public Facebook page I'd hatched a baby Burtons. I kid you not I had about ten people message me wanting to buy some, one of which was asking in behalf of a zoo.

I think people need to get inspired to want an animal. The sad reality is Facebook (which is where morphs really develop cult followings) dictates that for most of this generation as very few of them will ever actually get out and herp to see wild animals.

Thanks for the input WeirdzandBeardz.

Why do people keep to themselves? I haven't been in the hobby for long, but I can take a guess. After an absolutely ridiculous display on one of the reptile Facebook groups I sometimes frequent, I can understand why people keep to themselves. The attitudes of some people in the hobby simply disgust me and it feels like I've been taken back to high school where supposed adults are behaving like a stampeding hoard of hormonal teenagers, debating who has the best and most expensive iPhone, with the coolest and newest apps.

This attitude sometimes makes me want to fade in the woodwork too, and to admire my collection for what they are, and not for being the most expensive and illusive morph out there (which they're not). I'm sure no one will miss me either because I don't have a big name and many of the animals I find desirable are considered to be dull. And that's the way I want it to stay. But for now I still have an incentive to post because I like to talk about reptiles because I love them.

I feel if people need "inspiration" to want an underrated or uncommon reptile, such as plastering it all over social media and mooching it off as the next "big thing" then perhaps that particular reptile is not for them. The only inspiration you need is seeing it in the wild or in reptile field guides.

 

[pinefamily]

And you can post away here on APS Oshkii, instead of the dreaded social media. We love reptiles too!

 

[WeirdzandBeardz]

I think another big thing about people keeping collections quiet after a while is that they develop a network of people they trust.

It's so much nicer trading or selling to a friend because you know they aren't going to dick you around and your confident in their abilities. I've moved on a couple of clutches of eggs this season with no public sales simply because I've had friends asked for them. I agree with you too Oshkii that it's also a hell of a lot nicer not dealing with all the lowballing scummy people that are in the hobby.

On the note of inspiration as well, I think a lot of people take money as inspiration in the hobby. the next big thing = the next big dollar and I'm sure that's why a lot of people keep certain animals. At one point I was wondering if I was subconsciously going down that pathway, but dawned on me that I love my jacky dragons as much as my monitors and keep and breed both for the enjoyment, not the money. If I wanted the money I would have flogged the jackys off and used their tank for more monitors haha

The positive of it all is that there are so many good keepers out there that always get forgotten! The hobby is riddled with scumbags, but also filled with passionate people... You just have to find them!

 

[cement]

Being a purist came under a lot of fire a few years ago when the underhanded money grubbing jag crew "surprisingly" had jags just hatch out in their collections. It was before facebook, and the forums were full of bickering, with many people like myself being banned from sites because we were openly telling the truth, which was against the agendas of many, even some certain site moderators, so site bannings were being handed out like jaffas if you were a purist, for ridiculous reasons. I have even had a jag breeder call me by phone and try to tell me that because I made a post on here regarding white lipped pythons, that I was no better then the scum bags that smuggled in the jags, and in particular, him. he didn't have the brains to realise that a post on here, wasn't the same as actually keeping the animals and therefore buying into the smuggling.!
The best thing I ever did was turn my back on the hobby, and simply go about my business of relocating and looking after my collection. The hobby was so distasteful, I started to lose enthusiasm for reptiles in general, but now that the "other side" is all on face book, and I am not, my passion has come back and I am quite happy staying away from all the ********, and going about my work with our wild native animals. Without these animals, there would never even be a hobby, therefore, an enlightened person who is grateful for their life and what they have, would easily see the beauty of even the most shabbiest wild type reptile. They can have their one-up-manship, and their "projects", and their deep seated moral insecurities that has become rife, and shove it.
My biggest concern was that jags would escape, and breed. To date, I haven't caught one yet, but I have caught many unidentifiable python sub-species crosses. Sometimes they are "clean" others are covered in mites. Not what we want out there in the wild.

 

[kittycat17]

Being a purist came under a lot of fire a few years ago when the underhanded money grubbing jag crew "surprisingly" had jags just hatch out in their collections. It was before facebook, and the forums were full of bickering, with many people like myself being banned from sites because we were openly telling the truth, which was against the agendas of many, even some certain site moderators, so site bannings were being handed out like jaffas if you were a purist, for ridiculous reasons. I have even had a jag breeder call me by phone and try to tell me that because I made a post on here regarding white lipped pythons, that I was no better then the scum bags that smuggled in the jags, and in particular, him. he didn't have the brains to realise that a post on here, wasn't the same as actually keeping the animals and therefore buying into the smuggling.!
The best thing I ever did was turn my back on the hobby, and simply go about my business of relocating and looking after my collection. The hobby was so distasteful, I started to lose enthusiasm for reptiles in general, but now that the "other side" is all on face book, and I am not, my passion has come back and I am quite happy staying away from all the ********, and going about my work with our wild native animals. Without these animals, there would never even be a hobby, therefore, an enlightened person who is grateful for their life and what they have, would easily see the beauty of even the most shabbiest wild type reptile. They can have their one-up-manship, and their "projects", and their deep seated moral insecurities that has become rife, and shove it.
My biggest concern was that jags would escape, and breed. To date, I haven't caught one yet, but I have caught many unidentifiable python sub-species crosses. Sometimes they are "clean" others are covered in mites. Not what we want out there in the wild.

Yup after being harrassed and abused on fb last year I got of all the reptile groups and ******** and I can agree life is much happier now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nero Egernia]

I only have a Facebook account so I can see what's happening on the reptile scene, but other than that I have little to do with it. I try to keep it that way, although my activity on there has been increasing of late, but now that the business is looking to be done I can fade back into the woodwork. It's good that there are some good people still out there in the hobby. I'm happy to say I have dealt with a few. Unfortunately the scumbags appear to outnumber them.

 

[dragonlover1]

Unfortunately the scumbags appear to outnumber them.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you

 

[Pythons Rule]

When looking around on some (American, I believe) forums regarding snakes and morphs, I was absolutely disgusted and horrified by one topic on the forum that went on and on about how boring wild type Australian pythons were, and how, when breeding their own 'super fancy' morphs, they would probably end up killing (not euthanasing or selling, KILLING) any 'normals' or borings.
What was even more shocking was how many of the comments agreed with this. Another person went on to say that all 'normal' types should be euthanised because they were a 'waste of space' or making all of them unable to produce.

I can't remember entirely, but I do believe they were discussing Jungle's.

Regardless of the species, have any of you guys ever seen an 'ugly' Aussie snake? I sure haven't.

It really did upset me to see all of those people who could not see the beauty and individuality that each wildtype snake is. That they were seen as a waste product of breeding.

Personally I prefer the wildtypes to some of the new things coming out- YES the morphs are amazing looking animals, but I really do love and appreciate the 'how they were made' look.
It's why, when buying my Stimson's I paid $200 for a pure Wheatbelt hatchy instead of $80 'mixed heritage' one.
It's why I paid $300 for my RHD Woma and spent weeks searching for a locale specific one rather than just a 'woma'.
That's why now I'm combing through the web looking for a pure Diamond to add to the collection.

Nothing is better than seeing a snake in its natural habit- nothing better than seeing their natural beauty.

Sure, my little Stimmie isn't the flashiest, brightest, most colourful snake out there, but he's the prettiest Stimsons in the world! (Not that I'm biased or anything xD)


I only see two bad sides to the hobby.
1. Bad people
2. I CANT STOP BUYING MORE SNAKES HELP

need to remember that aussie snakes in the usa are no where near as nice as the stuff we have here, and its very very hard for them to have pure lines most are crosses or jag sibs. and yes they have a lot of overstock and a lot of ugly looking muddied specimens caused from crossing etc. They also have different rules and laws over there with keeping and breeding animals to us. Another thing pythons aren't worth a tone of money over there and jags are everywhere. I don't personally agree with their practices but if no one controlled the amount of animals being produced then there will be a lot of animals being released into the wild when they aren't from there which in tern will become gator and retic food.

 

[Nero Egernia]

need to remember that aussie snakes in the usa are no where near as nice as the stuff we have here, and its very very hard for them to have pure lines most are crosses or jag sibs. and yes they have a lot of overstock and a lot of ugly looking muddied specimens caused from crossing etc.

Beauty is a subjective thing. While you may find dark muddied specimens ugly, others may find them beautiful.

 

[Waterrat]

I see that quite a few people here are knocking face book. Each to their own but FB is great if you join the groups that are dealing with specific interest and stay away from the ones where every Dick & Harry express their two bob worth opinion. The thing I like about FB is, people open accounts with their real names, so you know whom you're talking to and it also suppresses (to a degree) nasty comments from keyboard warriors hiding behind their alias.
Many topics that are discussed here were discussed in far more detail with high level of integrity in many of the specialist groups. JMO

cheers
Michael

 

[Pythons Rule]

I see that quite a few people here are knocking face book. Each to their own but FB is great if you join the groups that are dealing with specific interest and stay away from the ones where every Dick & Harry express their two bob worth opinion. The thing I like about FB is, people open accounts with their real names, so you know whom you're talking to and it also suppresses (to a degree) nasty comments from keyboard warriors hiding behind their alias.
Many topics that are discussed here were discussed in far more detail with high level of integrity in many of the specialist groups. JMO

cheers
Michael

I used it because its a great way to meet others with a specific interest like yourself but there is still a lot of people that go there to troll sellers

 

[Waterrat]

That's true but you can block trolls. Easy solution.

 

[SpottedPythons]

I have a silkback. I didn't get him because of the scale/no scale issue, but because he seemed the healthiest and most alert of his group of hatchies. Of course I'll never breed him, and I'm aware of the shedding issues, so he gets a warm bath daily. Other than that, my entire group of reptiles are wildtype. I hope you guys understand... I'm not advocating the creation of silkies or anything, but I just believe that they shouldn't just be frozen. What people should do is stop creating them, because I personally believe it's quite unfair to kill them when it was us who bred them into existance. People these days... whats wrong with the good old beardie?

 

[Wally]

Welcome to the forum SpottedPythons.