Looking for advice on force feeding/potential neuro???

[khaki]

Edit/Update: she ate!! info in replies

Hi all! Sorry for the long post - I have a young carpet python who’s about 3 and a half months old now. I don’t think she came from a super great breeder, she was pretty cheap, the breeder pretty much just gave me the snake and that’s it and just said she’s probably due for a feed soon.

I have had very little success with feeding, I’ve had her for almost 2 months now and she will not take food no matter what I try - I tried using tongs, leaving it in the enclosure overnight, moving her into a separate feed container and leaving them overnight, I even tried cutting it smaller and hoping the smell of blood would entice her, I’ve tried giving her weeks break between feed attempts, I asked for advice on a Facebook page and tried every piece of advice I was given but nothing was working so I resorted to assist/force feeding, every week when I feed I try to use tongs again but it never gets any better.

I asked the breeder if she had any feeding issues and he just said not that he can remember which I feel is kind of vague so I thought maybe she’s always had a problem and that’s why she was cheap? She’s was also pretty small when I got her, she’s gotten a bit bigger now that I’ve been feeding regularly but I have a feeling maybe she wasn’t cared for properly/always had an issue

She rarely ever strikes the prey and I’ve even tried to “bully” her with it to entice her to take it by rubbing it on the back of her neck etc. and even when she does take it, she’ll just snap at it and then let go after 1-2 seconds, she’s never wrapped/constricted it and I try again and again and again every week but need to force feed her every time. When she does strike at it she’ll often miss the mouse and seems kind of uncoordinated almost?

Assist feeding doesn’t work or she’ll just throw it back up every time and if I don’t massage it down her gut far enough she throws it up.

I’m just wondering how long do you normally assist/force feed until you start to see progress/how long until she begins to understand, will she ever eat normally?

My partner reckons she may even have some kind of neurological issue

I feel so bad for her and I feel awful stressing her out when I have to force feed but she won’t eat any other way and I just don’t know when and if it will get better

Would love any input or advice or if anyone has had a similar experience I’d really appreciate to hear anyone’s thoughts, thanks so much

 

[Herpetology]

First off we should rule out the potential of any husbandry issues on your behalf.

What’s your setup like? Pictures + details help alot

Click clack size, source of heat, temperature gradient, how are you measuring the temperature?

Assist feeding/force feeding a snake whilst there’s husbandry issues is just going to kill the snake after a couple regurgitations.

Remember… KISS - Keep it simple setup

I wouldn’t even think of assist feeding untill it’s been 3months that they haven’t eaten, and thats out of the egg. I’d be looking at my setup and making sure it’s all right.

Click clack tub 7L with paper towel substrate
32-34°c hot spot 1/3 of tub with a heatcord / mat on a thermostat.
Cool end ambient temperature
Water bowl
Suitable hide


https://www.aussiepythons.com/threads/guide-to-build-a-click-clack-dial-up-warning.93266/
https://www.aussiepythons.com/threads/show-us-your-click-clack-set-ups.208456/
That’s it

 

[khaki]

Yeah I’ve thought about it/it’s been mentioned to me before but I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong with the setup. Cool end sits at 24/25 degrees and warm end sits at about 32, using a heat mat, I have two hides, water bowl, fake plant, she’s in a hatchling enclosure with reptile bark but I also cover it up a fair bit for her security/comfort, especially when she first came home it was covered for weeks and I gradually increased the vision but she seems a lot more comfortable lately. Idk the litre size but it’s 45cm long, 39cm wide, 15cm high (measured from the outside so like -2cm for the inside area)

 

[Mack86]

^ please do the above mentioned if you haven't already! It will not fail you. Best of luck

 

[Allan]

What are you trying to feed her? Assuming that she is healthy, almost all problems with feeding hatchlings relates to offering the "wrong food" Some hatchlings prefer rat pups before pinkie mice, some prefer fuzzy mice instead of pinkie mice, lizards before fuzzy mice and the list goes on. I have a container in the freezer with different scent animals for tricky hatchlings, Green Tree Pythons being the worst. These scents include: Quails (best) in different ages, newborn chooks, house geckos, adult mice and fish being the most popular. When scenting, you need to rinse whatever you're offering and rub it with the scent animal, alternatively cut a piece of skin and leave on.
Not good if the breeder knowingly sold you a non feeding snake, regardless of price. You might want to contact him and ask what he used to feed her, if you haven't already done so. I always give the buyer a complete feeding history, but sometimes I get an email about a sold nonfeeder where the buyer has only tried pinkies instead of what I wrote down in the feeding history. Force feeding is stressful and should only be the last resort and done very slowly. Pinkie Pumps to be avoided altogether. Good luck.

 

[khaki]

What are you trying to feed her? Assuming that she is healthy, almost all problems with feeding hatchlings relates to offering the "wrong food" Some hatchlings prefer rat pups before pinkie mice, some prefer fuzzy mice instead of pinkie mice, lizards before fuzzy mice and the list goes on. I have a container in the freezer with different scent animals for tricky hatchlings, Green Tree Pythons being the worst. These scents include: Quails (best) in different ages, newborn chooks, house geckos, adult mice and fish being the most popular. When scenting, you need to rinse whatever you're offering and rub it with the scent animal, alternatively cut a piece of skin and leave on.
Not good if the breeder knowingly sold you a non feeding snake, regardless of price. You might want to contact him and ask what he used to feed her, if you haven't already done so. I always give the buyer a complete feeding history, but sometimes I get an email about a sold nonfeeder where the buyer has only tried pinkies instead of what I wrote down in the feeding history. Force feeding is stressful and should only be the last resort and done very slowly. Pinkie Pumps to be avoided altogether. Good luck.

I have tried both pinkie mice and rats and also tried scenting with lizard and had no luck ( will keep trying though and see if I can get some quail/try with fish. Thanks!

 

[punkinhead]

I got my little jungle to feed when i got him by bagging him with a pinkie overnight after he was refusing food.

It's a lot less messy than the whole cut and smear thing, and certainly worked for him.

 

[sherlock]

Yeah I’ve thought about it/it’s been mentioned to me before but I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong with the setup. Cool end sits at 24/25 degrees and warm end sits at about 32, using a heat mat, I have two hides, water bowl, fake plant, she’s in a hatchling enclosure with reptile bark but I also cover it up a fair bit for her security/comfort, especially when she first came home it was covered for weeks and I gradually increased the vision but she seems a lot more comfortable lately. Idk the litre size but it’s 45cm long, 39cm wide, 15cm high (measured from the outside so like -2cm for the inside area)

From a quick read your temps and setups are ok. But sounds like your snake has had a hard life for some reason. Let her relax for a while, maybe.

Try what I found to have worked with my snakes, with the reasons why they will entice her to eat.

https://www.aussiepythons.com/threads/feeding-pythons.227516/

 

[Bluetongue1]

You have tried a number of things already and have been given some additional good advice here to add to that, which I do not intend to repeat. I’ll make a few additional points and explain each, so you can make up your own mind.

Firstly, your ‘rock’ style hide is far too big for the size of the snake. In nature, young snakes are on the menu of most any predator larger than them, including things like even Green Tree Frogs. They therefore seek out tight crevices between or under rocks or wood, small tight burrows or timber hollows, and similar small, hard to fit into spots in which to shelter. There are several reasons for this. Probably the most obvious is protection. If a predator cannot open its mouth wide enough in the space available, then it cannot grab hold of the snake occupying this refuge. Small, tight spaces also allow snakes to seal off the entry hole with their body and reduce the flow of air into that space. This helps the snake to conserve both body heat and humidity, which would otherwise be lost to moving air currents. An ideal hide is therefore one in which a snake has to effectively ‘squeeze’ into it. In other words, the snake should be able to feel the roof and sides and be able to block the entry. This type of hide will make it feel secure. This also explains why young snakes will often hide under sheets of paper or paper towelling when these are used as substrate.

One thing which is lacking in your enclosure is a perch. Carpet are highly arboreal snakes and even the youngest ones should be given a perch to sit on to perform their natural behaviours. Two pieces of dowelling of about 1cm diameter, or similar sized natural wood should be placed across the enclosure, around 2 or 3cm below the ceiling. Arboreal pythons feel secure on these sorts of ‘high’ perches.

My next suggestion would be to get rid of the existing substrate and replace it with plain paper or paper towelling. The existing substrate might be nice for you to look at, but the snake certainly does not need it. What can happen often with young snakes is that loose or fibrous substrate gets stuck on their food item. This can put them off swallowing these food items. It can also potentially build up, causing impaction in the digestive tract.

The last point to make is about transparent plastic and click clacks. You are much better off to use an opaque plastic container if you can. This will let plenty of light in but still provide a sense of security to the occupant. If you have a clear container, then rather than cover it, which can affect ventilation, or painting it black, which severely reduces the light, give it a coat of a lightly coloured poster paint. The paint colour should be chosen to produce an effect similar to translucent plastic. Just bear in mind that poster paint is water soluble so don’t let water get on it.

Bottom line… get your snake feeling secures in its enclosure and you are much more likely see its natural behaviours and reflexes happening. Just give it time to develop the sense of security first.

Nothing you mentioned is indicative of a possible neurological condition, so I feel you can safely rule that out as a potential contributing factor.

I wish you luck with your little one, and do exercise patience rather than trying to force progress.

 

[GBWhite]

Excellent advice Mike and something the OP should take on board. Well done.

 

[Mack86]

Excellent advice Mike and something the OP should take on board. Well done.

He has helped me so much. I definitely agree

 

[khaki]

Update:

Hey all just wanted to give an update! Literally nothing I tried was doing anything, I just kind of gave up trying things for a bit/didn’t bother trying to feed and entirely left her alone for a few weeks hoping that if I did absolutely nothing with her or her environment and just gave her a whole lot of time for her by herself to really settle and get hungry that it would fix the issue

She did shed for the first time since being with me which was a good sign! And then she was pretty active the other day so I decided to try another feed and she ate it all by herself my partner and I just stood there speechless lmao. I suppose she just needed a really long time to finally settle in but I’m so glad she’s coming out of her shell and shes made so much progress. If I hadn’t assist fed her in the meantime though she wouldn’t have had food for 3+ months

I had to take a photo when she got it cause I was so excited

Thanks everyone for all your help

 

[Herpetology]

Good job

 

[JustTC]

Update:

Hey all just wanted to give an update! Literally nothing I tried was doing anything, I just kind of gave up trying things for a bit/didn’t bother trying to feed and entirely left her alone for a few weeks hoping that if I did absolutely nothing with her or her environment and just gave her a whole lot of time for her by herself to really settle and get hungry that it would fix the issue

She did shed for the first time since being with me which was a good sign! And then she was pretty active the other day so I decided to try another feed and she ate it all by herself my partner and I just stood there speechless lmao. I suppose she just needed a really long time to finally settle in but I’m so glad she’s coming out of her shell and shes made so much progress. If I hadn’t assist fed her in the meantime though she wouldn’t have had food for 3+ months

I had to take a photo when she got it cause I was so excited

Thanks everyone for all your help

Thats great!! Happy for you. Having a similar situation at the moment, myself. Congrats
P.S She is so beautiful. I love her markings.