metabolic bone disease

[reneerossini]

im sure this has come up a lot on this forum but i have looked back over about 70 posts and found nothing.

this morning i was feeding my desert dragons and i noticed that one of them has developed a hump on its back. i remembered reading about metabolic bone disease and started sniffing around for reported symptoms and possible paths of action.

i fear he does have MTB, some of the common symptoms reported that he/she is exhibiting include:
- malformed spine
- inability to stand up fully
- in the past i have seen his/her legs twitching when he/she was lying on the log

He/she is eating normally however. I have adequate UV lighting (the guy i bought them off sold me the lighting) so i fear it is a calcium problem. I have had to spend a lot of time away from home due to work at the moment but my flatmate has been diligently caring for the lizards. Their diet has consisted of mostly vegetables for the last month (mostly spinach, carrot and alfalfa).

Its suspicious since his/her cage-mate is healthy and looking good. I fear the malformed lizards condition may have been helped along by the aggressive feeding tactics of the second lizard.

I realize now that we are not providing enough calcium (we were only dusting food once a fortnight) and will pick this up to two or three times a week from now on. Now that i am home i think i will strive to feed them separately as well to ensure the little guy is getting adequate nutrition.

At the present stage i have a few questions about the disease for anyone who has had experience with it:

1) I assume i should head to the vet a.s.a.p. We live near the university of queensland in brisbane, does anyone know any good vets around this area, perhaps in the university?

2) Are there any early warning signs i should look for in the other lizard just incase he/she has it too. At present, the healthy lizard stands up straight and looks perfect, but just in case there is something wrong that hasnt surfaced yet ide like to know?

3) Are there any other suggestions for what i should do with the malformed guy before i get him/her to the vet? I read that the risk of breaking bones is high when they are in this state. Their cage doesnt have a lot of precipices they can fall off but perhaps i should re-configure it for the moment to make sure this can not happen? Should i reduce handling? Is there anything i should avoid/increase in the diet apart from calcium supplement?

thanks in advance for any help that you can provide. hopefully i can get the little guy better again asap.

Renee

 

[serpenttongue]

I'm not sure that rushing the animal to a vet will help much. The vet will just confirm what you already know, not do anything to actually cure the animal.

How close to their UV light can they get? I think they need to be able to get as close as 15cm to the UV light??

I think the best thing you can do is increase dusting their food with calcium, and have insects make up most of their diet. And also get them outdoors so they can be exposed to the sun.

 

[ambah]

No spinach.. it stops calcium from being absorbed :|

Also calcium supplement would be a good idea, can be given via a syringe daily straight in the mouth (liquid, not dust)
If you can seperate them, i would.
Anything that serpenttounge has said, I also agree with!

 

[snakenurse]

get some liquid oral calcium (calcium sandoz syrup) into the dragon, this will be quicker acting, as for dose rate, I will have to check at home (at work atm).
Twitching is signs of calcium defiency, it can even go as far as fitting. Lethargy can be a sign too. I would change their diet to feed a higher Calcium-Phosphorus ratio. There are plenty of diets on the net and on here that are good for dragons. I would separate the dragons until the calcium deficent one is stronger, you wouldnt want the other dragon to walk on it and break some bones. I would also keep the affected dragon in a cage with no furnishings, thus it reduces the risk of it breaking bones from climbing. I wouldnt handle the dragon and be very gentle when you do.
There is no need to rush the dragon to the vet unless it is extremely flat and/or fitting IMO. If it is that severe the vet can give injectable calcium which is fast acting.
Natural sunlight will help a little too, it will help the calcium get abdorbed quicker, just be sure the dragon doesnt get too hot.
If the dragon already has deformaties, eg: malformed spine, this will generally not be corrected as the bones would of been like that for a while. Most of the time unless it is severe, the dragons quality of life would not be affected.
HTH

 

[reneerossini]

wow guys! thanks so much

ill stop with the spinach, i didnt read that it blocks calcium absorption anywhere as yet. thanks for that ambah. I guess the plan of attack for the moment will be: bump up the powdered calcium asap (their new load of cochroachs should come on monday), get him/her out in the sun as much as possible, and get hold of some liquid oral calcium asap. Trish, if you could help me out with the dosage and where would be best to get it i would be super grateful!!!

at the moment they would be approximately 30cm from their UV light at the closest so i will re-configure the terrarium to give them more access to that, thanks serpenttongue. will they actively move toward the UV if they feel the need for it like they do with the basking light, or would it be best to make it a mandatory, all the time they are close configuration?

they will be separated now and a new home made for the sick guy - no furnishings. At the moment we take them both out in the garden with us every third or fourth day to soak up some rays but perhaps, for the sick guy, i will take his new isolation tank outside everyday for some serious basking time. Any suggestions on how i can help him/her control temperature in there? its getting pretty warm here in brissy at the moment. the new tank would be about 40cm x 25. Could i perhaps build a shaded "box" or hide inside there?

thanks so much for your help guys! hopefully since the deformity in his/her back only appeared to such a noticeable extent in the last few days it shouldn't take too long for recovery. ill keep some updates here if you were interested in seeing how it went?

 

[reneerossini]

Wow! after only a week with bumped up calcium he/shes looking so much better! Standing up straight, the bump has reduced a little, happy (or happier) lizard. Ill keep up the calcium and the sunshine and soon he shall be back to full health. Thanks again for your help guys

Renee

 

[bowdnboy]

Try this site also. Is quite informative in relation to diet.

Cheers

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

 

[Chris1]

i'd say u should probably replace the light anyway and give em as much sun as possible.

i rarely supplement my dragons with calcium or vitamins, instead they have a healthy varied diet with lots of calcium rich greens.

none have ever had MDB issues.

 

[Snakebuster]

Lets see a pic

 

[Snakebuster]

Give them more variety in their diet. Not much variety in diet is the main cause of MBD.

 

[JKretzs613]

Hello

Hello,

It looks like you are taking care of the problem hopefully.
Spinach contains oxalates which will bind calcium absorption. So it is best to avoid spinach for the most part. Kale has oxalates too so do not use that as a staple, either.
What type & brand of UVB light are you using? Is it a flourescent tube or a compact or coil light?
I am in the US, but I know that in Australia there are not all that many great UVB lights either just like over here. So you have to be picky about which one you do get.
If you are using the Blacklight, that one just doesn't emit much. I am pretty sure you can get the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb over there, right?
He can't absorb calcium without sufficient UVB exposure, whether it be from outdoor sun or indoor lighting.
If you are going to use liquid calcium the recommended dose is 1mg/kg of bodyweight.

I am happy to hear he is doing better.

Tracie