Movement of our herps... opinions please

[mrsshep77]

I agree Aslan and until I read this thread I didn't think twice about taking them out in public, not that I've made a habit of it, only when necessary!
We just don't think of the "what if's" sometimes. I understand the need to help educate people as I find myself doing when family and friends make stupid comments but I know I don't have all the answers or know all the correct ways of doing things and I'm constantly researching myself.
We need to respect the rules and the reason they are put into place, not to make our lives miserable (by not being able to take our snakes where we want) but protecting us from our beloved animals being targeted and misrepresented in the community!
As much as we'd all like to think our snakes are placid and wouldn't hurt a fly (can't guarentee a rats safety tho.. hehe) there are still SO MANY people out there who just don't understand reptiles and could potentially harm them!
I can tell you that my 7ft diamond python wouldn't strike out at you and letting your young child handle it will be ok but that would be irresponsible of me because that snake is used to me handling it and is familiar with me, a young child might squeeze to tightly or "accidentally" hurt him and I've got a "potential" disaster on my hands as a 7ft python would do some damage to a young child!
It's ok to have friends and family enjoy them in your home, which is familiar surroundings to the snake but out in public where it's not familiar is too much of risk and NOBODY could guarentee their reptile WON'T hurt someone! We see stories on a regular basis where someone's beloved and seemingly placid pet has turned on someone, even their owners, so why can't our snakes do the same? They are technically wild animals domesticated for humans.
This isn't an attack on people who don't agree with the laws as I understand you're frustration, I'm merely pointing out MY OPINION on why the rules exist!
We have speed limits in cars and alcohol limits and all these other rules, so why is this so different?
Mell

This hilights my point exactly - have you considered what would happen to the rest of the herp society when one of your snakes, so overly stressed by a horde of small children, strikes out and tags one on the face...?

The authorities would clamp down absurdly on the hobby as a whole...because of one person deciding they were more important than the rest...

I have mentioned this previously and will again, RESPONSIBLE pet ownership is the key, regardless of species - it is entirely IRRESPONSIBLE to take it upon yourself to flaunt the rules when the flow on from that is potentially going to adversely affect the entire herp community...we see how much publi outcry occurs when some clown gets himself bitten on the drink...imagine what would happen if a herper took a snake in public (eg. a school) and a child got bitten...

 

[wichita]

I think the simple fact is that this law (like many other laws) is in place to prevent the remarkably stupid from doing remarkably stupid things. I personally don't see a need to take my reptiles out of the house, but that is my choice.

I think many reptile keepers are too sensitive and prone to play the victim "But people can take dogs and cats out in public". The fact is it is near impossible to remove a right once it has been allowed. There are benefits on not allowing dogs and cats out in public, but good luck in denying that to the general populace.

Whether it is right or wrong to take your reptiles out in public verges on the handling debate so I won't go there. I will say that these laws are well founded because as we have all seen and heard, there are some remarkable redneck fools keeping reptiles out there and allowing them to take reptiles out in public opens a dangerous can of worms.

Agree totally.
The law exists to protect the majority from the foolish few. Enjoy your herps in the privacy of your own home.

 

[WeLovePythons]

Aslan best you take a step backwards and think twice before trying to put words in my mouth. Show me where I said I let any children handle any Herps. As for the Super Moderator may I say that from what I have seen in past threads you and other Moderators have locked threads that have began to become targeted at individuals (i.e. potentially upsetting or offending individuals) but you have partaken in such behaviour yourself, I feel uncomfortable with the way you made your post.

Now back to the topic at hand. How do all you who know best suggest educating the public in order to change their ideas on Herps if you don't wnat anyone to teach them??

And if it was cheaper you would have heaps of uneducated idiots running around giving wrong information and taking crap............

How is this so Isis?? I never said that they should do away with all the other requirements that are needed to be fulfilled i.e. approved topical materials. I only believe that the amount for the licence should be reduced. I believe that all other requirements should be met. Your statement says to me that if you can afford the cost of the licence that you are smarter then someone who can't afford it??? Since when did someones personal wealth dictate their IQ level or wether someone was educated or not? I never realised being poorer then the bloke next door meant he was smarter and better educated then me????

 

[dragons75]

Dunno if it's been said but if you want an animal for show and to parade around get a dog.And if getting popularity points from your mates is why you keep herps your a goose and don't deserve the right to own these animals. IMO

 

[Aslan]

WeLovePythons - Best YOU take a step backwards and think twice before putting words in MY mouth...at no point did I suggest that you allow any school children to handle your reptiles. That would be even more irresponsible than you taking them there in the first place...

...and I think you will find that the topic ACTUALLY at hand has absolutely nothing to do with you educating school children but is a topic regarding the legality of moving your reptiles around. However, I think you will find that everyone involved in the hobby would love to see people become more educated about reptiles in general...

...there is a question about WHO should be teaching these things though. Merely having a reptile at home is hardly sufficient background to suppose that you are in a position to educate the public in general, and this seems to be the view of many so far who are arguing against the restrictions on movement.

I have lived in a house my entire life, but I am hardly qualified to teach people construction...

 

[WeLovePythons]

Aslan I get the impression that you seem to consider yourself an authority of some sort? I thought these forums were to give people the opportunity to express their point of view but from what I have been reading in old threads people (such as you in this case) go overboard with your replies trying to force people to submit to your will. Well I don't care what your opinion is or what the opinions of others are. You and a few others here have jumped to the conclussion that you seem to know me or my partner? Well this could not be further from the truth. You know nothing of us. But let me enlighten you all. For starters we have just moved to NSW not to long ago from QLD and while I asked why should I have to pay $5000 for an exhibitors licence I never at any time said we hadn't already paid for a licence. We held and I guess still hold and Exhibitors licence in QLD so I guess that also means I am not breaking the law?? Funny how people always jump to conclussions about things when they think they know everything. I am considering getting one for NSW but may not due to the cost. So I think this is an excellent example of what I am saying about the cost. We both have experience keeping and also on doing educational talks with approved material but now we may not do it any further simply because of cost and I think that is a shame when cost dictates....

 

[swingonthespiral]

Dunno if it's been said but if you want an animal for show and to parade around get a dog.And if getting popularity points from your mates is why you keep herps your a goose and don't deserve the right to own these animals. IMO

OMG DUDE..... how many times have i had to say that NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT THEY HAVE THIER HERPS FOR SHOWING OFF..... dude seriously.... i think it has been posted in many threads my opinion of ppl who do this..... perhaps one should actually read all the posted replies rather than jumping to the conclusion that we are all into herps becasue we want the wow factor..... plz go to the thread "clever snake" i think the point was argued there......:evil:

 

[Isis]

The point was making was not that only the rich should be able to get exhibitors licences....I meant that no matter what socio economic group you fall into that the high cost means that it will make people who get them really want to do it and not just someone saying....hey I know what im doing Ill pay the couple of dollars to get the licence and then go out and sprout off. I know people who have exhibitors licences that struggle financially but budgetted tightly for a very long time to get the licence they really wanted. They also appreciate the responsibility that goes with holding such a licence and have researched studied and still are as things change all the time , to make sure they have the up to date info and plenty of experience and knowledge to do what they do responsibly. They do educational stuff for no charge so its not a money making venture, the educate not show off and they take the utmost care to everything with the animals welfare being top priority at all times. Money doesnt mean you are smart or have common sense.

 

[dragons75]

OMG DUDE..... how many times have i had to say that NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT THEY HAVE THIER HERPS FOR SHOWING OFF..... dude seriously.... i think it has been posted in many threads my opinion of ppl who do this..... perhaps one should actually read all the posted replies rather than jumping to the conclusion that we are all into herps becasue we want the wow factor..... plz go to the thread "clever snake" i think the point was argued there......:evil:

And were did i say anyone does ? I said iIF THEY DO learn to read and welove pythons if you have a problem bring it up in the open not with pathetic pms

 

[Aslan]

Welovepythons - I don't even come close to considering myself an authority, and have stated that quite openly in many posts throughout this thread (and many others)...and you're correct, there forums ARE for giving people the opportunity to express their point of view - which is exactly what I am doing...

I have a very strong point of view on this matter - as you obviously also have. I am also quite happy to debate this issue from my stand point. The problem is that you seem to be more inclined to take offence or search for arguments during the debate as we have different points of view...

...your original post mentions absolutely nothing of you holding an exhibitors licence (which I am quite happy to take your word for) so seems to suggest that your contribution to the thread has been designed solely to stir the pot - and despite me not being any authority on the matter, you may want to check with NPWS regarding your status as an exhibitor in NSW as most licences do not carry with you from state to state due to the different criteria required...

Now, can I please ask again, if we are to continue in this thread can you please keep the posts on topic as this is becoming quite tiresome...

 

[Hickson]

As for the Super Moderator may I say that from what I have seen in past threads you and other Moderators have locked threads that have began to become targeted at individuals (i.e. potentially upsetting or offending individuals) but you have partaken in such behaviour yourself, I feel uncomfortable with the way you made your post.

One of the reasons why Moderators lock threads is when individuals are personally attacked. My post attacked your argument, not you.



Hix

 

[cris]

Aslan best you take a step backwards and think twice before trying to put words in my mouth. Show me where I said I let any children handle any Herps. As for the Super Moderator may I say that from what I have seen in past threads you and other Moderators have locked threads that have began to become targeted at individuals (i.e. potentially upsetting or offending individuals) but you have partaken in such behaviour yourself, I feel uncomfortable with the way you made your post.

Well i feel uncomfortable about you feeling uncomfortable about his post because their was nothing personally offending about it at all. If you dont want ppl to respond to your opinions and questions you should keep them to yourself.

 

[WeLovePythons]

Well i feel uncomfortable about you feeling uncomfortable about his post because their was nothing personally offending about it at all. If you dont want ppl to respond to your opinions and questions you should keep them to yourself.

Tell me cris are you trying to make things worse with this post of yours? It appears that you only made your post to have a shot?

Aslan just to clarify for you, I know that licences don't transfer from state to state. This is part of my point I guess in that you pay an exorbitant amount of money for the privelage to exhibit and teach in one state but then when/if you move you have to pay the same amount all over again. Maybe the answer is that for that amount maybe they should make it a National licence? Just a thought. what do you think? Also maybe they could reduce the cost of movement advices and have it allowable that you can take our Herps around so long as we fill one out each time, if you know what I mean?

Dragon75 : for the record I sent you a PM to try and settle it like adults without putting it in this thread but since you want it this way,, I would like to inform you that I have forwarded you reply on to the Moderators for review and I hope that you recieve an infraction for it as I believe it is in contradiction to the site rules.

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

I don't have a problem with people taking an animal to a friends/relatives place on the odd occassion. I have done so myself. However, none of these people keep reptiles themselves so the risk of spreading disease is very limited.

On another point. You simply can not compare reptiles to mammals. A snake is not the same as a dog. I built a nice little enclosure for my Malamute. My dog is 140cm head to tail so I made the enclosure 80cm long which is more than half. It was a bit of an effort to get him in there but I can tell that he is happy...even if he doesn't have enough room to wag his tail, he looks like he is smiling.
Wait on...I think the RSPCA is knocking at my door.........I'll be back.

None of my friends own reptiles either.

I can compare reptiles to mammals.. Every animal needs to be given appropriate living space according to their size and behaviour. A friend of mine in America kept 2 italian greyhounds in a cage that wouldn't have been more than 2½ foot long, wide and high, letting them out for walks and toilet. Dogs are lucky enough to get back yards, cats get the insides of houses. Cats can't escape or get lost as easily as snakes, so it is for our own convenience and the snake's safety that we keep snakes in enclosures. You don't keep rats in your yard or livingroom, they do just fine with a small cage. You don't even keep lizards in an enclosure half their bodylength. Snakes just happen to be extremely bendy

-penny