moosenoose
Legendary
Hmmmm..no time to comment tonight! Will do so tomorrow. Good night all!
Never any JUSTICE!
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SnakeWrangler
Very Well-Known Member
dobermanmick said:
Yes, I have 5 daughters, if anyone done anything to harm my children in anyway there would be no chance to see if they had a mental illness because I would kill them!!
My point is that there are those that do have reasons which have contributed to the way they are, if those reasons were not there then there is a good chance that they would have never have done the things that they did, and I never said that they don't re-offend, I simply said that it is possible for them to stop re-offending.
Let me give another example, say someone molested one of my children, I hunted them down and killed them (with the greatest of imaginable pleasure), should I be convicted the same as a ruthless killer who kills for the fun of it?? I would be guilty without a doubt, but my crime would never have been commited if the crime against my child wasn't commited, in a similar (but obviously not the same) way, a person who is abused has a good chance of growing into an abuser, which would most likely not have happened if they were never abused! That is just the way I see it, but I completely understand where everyone is coming from.
Cheers.
In my opinion those two things are completely different. A bad upbringing/genetic condition/whatever else leading to someone being a paedophile means they will seek out children to abuse. Killing someone who has abused your kids only means you are the kind of person who would kill someone who abused your kids. You don't pose any risk to anyone who doesn't do something horrific to you or your loved ones, in my opinion you'd deserve a reward if anything at all.
SnakeWrangler
Very Well-Known Member
I understand exactly what you are saying, I however don't see it that way.
Now to bring this discussion back towards its original intention, let's say 3 months after killing the person who molested my child it is discovered that I killed the wrong person, what should my punishment be?
Now to bring this discussion back towards its original intention, let's say 3 months after killing the person who molested my child it is discovered that I killed the wrong person, what should my punishment be?
SnakeWrangler said:
"2 yrs in a minimum security wing, day release, all privaledges, tv, dvd, etc etc ,parole in 12 months for good behaviour, all paid by the taxpayer, be a good boy ,dont do it again" ????..........i.e the same the real molester would have got these days!
moosenoose
Legendary
Geez, there are some really good & valid points here. Sdaji I also hear what you?re saying! Have you ever seen the film the Crossing Guard? The film has Jack Nicholson in it & was directed by Sean Penn. I didn?t like the ending though!
It?s good to see the differing points of view. My concern is only this and I?ll say it again ? many of the punishments do not fit the crime. We have become relaxed & complacent in this country on violent crime, particularly on sex crimes! On the other hand, we must also be aware that sometimes these charges can be presented falsely! Often the only victim is the one made out to be the offender! I?m not talking about this sort of thing in this situation ? What I?m referring to is the clear cut cases! A recent example of this is, don?t slap an offender over the wrist for repeatedly raping a 7yr old girl and then wish him well for the future! Wish him well for what? That he doesn?t get caught next time? This is only one of the many decisions I find offensive, not to mention truly unbelievable, and the worst bit is, it happens almost every week!!
I agree with many that Capital punishment is the extreme end of the scale. I play around with the idea of it being reinstated in our country, although it never will be, whenever I am reminded of the likes of Martin Bryant, Ivan Milat & Paul Denyer and that?s just naming a few! Not failing to mention Greg Brazel who also warmly gets my vote for the axe! Although I am quite happy with the notion that these guys will never again see the light of day, and my salvation is that it must infuriate them that it is now society keeping them locked up & under control, but when will we also get more serious with their imprisonment? This part of it is now highly political Instar! I?d never allow televisions, computers, newspapers, cigarettes & all the things that free living & honest persons have to work hard for to some of these high offending creatures! They?ve lost those rights IMO! Where are the funds now found to sustain aftercare support for these victims when it?s been soaked up & wasted making life cozy for these monsters in our care?
Let's face it Instar! Everything we do has something that has been underlined by our politics! Our freedom has been brought about by politics! Even voicing our opinions are all byproducts of politics to some degree. So for you to say this is political you are right; perhaps I?d like to believe that this rally was apolitical, but where it was held dispels my ideology on whether it was political. Perhaps what I really want to believe is that the rally was designed to pressure the judges who make these decisions, and who are in a place of power, a gentle tap on the shoulder and reminded that their decisions are not reflective of the community!
Whilst I attended the rally yesterday, and could clearly see elements of finger pointing at certain elements of Victoria?s reining government! I'll make it no secret ? I?m no fan of Steve Bracks either! But I do not hold him responsible for what goes on in our justice system. Sure, any political party in power has the power to change certain aspects of the law, but this sort of thing isn?t regarding how the laws are written, it?s regarding how they are executed and when it comes to the crunch it rests firmly and squarely on the shoulders, & with the morals, of the judges who sentence these offenders! I don?t want new laws, or capital punishment! I want judges to show accountability and maturity in their decisions and show it through proper sentencing. Is that so hard?
The trouble is today people are not being held responsible for their actions. There is always some underlying reason as to why someone has done something wrong against someone else. It?s because we?ve all become too clever for our own good! Too damn politically correct in some cases! Let?s face it, as another example, what mentally competent person would take an AR-15, or whatever the hell it was, to shoot down 35 people in Tasmania? Women & kids! There would have been absolute outrage had Bryant been imprisoned for manslaughter or thrown in a mental asylum! What now then has changed? Why are people who kill families in drink driving accidents or who molest kids or rape women (lets not be forgetting men) getting off with slaps on the wrists and well-wishing by judges!? It?s because no one notices that one person screaming that?s its unfair! So yes, I must admit Instar, that now I look at it, 12 000+ people who are angry about some of these decisions, who are excluded emotionally from these victims plights, on the steps of parliament is very political, but I still believe its main aim was directed at waking up our judges and perhaps placing pressure on the running works of the Victorian DPP. Probably the rally would have been more effective in front of the Melbourne Supreme court? That to me would have sent more of a message. So as for yesterday, what did it achieve? Who knows? I was glad if only for one 7yr old girl, I showed up to say I think that judge was wrong and she has been treated unfairly by the system.
It?s good to see the differing points of view. My concern is only this and I?ll say it again ? many of the punishments do not fit the crime. We have become relaxed & complacent in this country on violent crime, particularly on sex crimes! On the other hand, we must also be aware that sometimes these charges can be presented falsely! Often the only victim is the one made out to be the offender! I?m not talking about this sort of thing in this situation ? What I?m referring to is the clear cut cases! A recent example of this is, don?t slap an offender over the wrist for repeatedly raping a 7yr old girl and then wish him well for the future! Wish him well for what? That he doesn?t get caught next time? This is only one of the many decisions I find offensive, not to mention truly unbelievable, and the worst bit is, it happens almost every week!!
I agree with many that Capital punishment is the extreme end of the scale. I play around with the idea of it being reinstated in our country, although it never will be, whenever I am reminded of the likes of Martin Bryant, Ivan Milat & Paul Denyer and that?s just naming a few! Not failing to mention Greg Brazel who also warmly gets my vote for the axe! Although I am quite happy with the notion that these guys will never again see the light of day, and my salvation is that it must infuriate them that it is now society keeping them locked up & under control, but when will we also get more serious with their imprisonment? This part of it is now highly political Instar! I?d never allow televisions, computers, newspapers, cigarettes & all the things that free living & honest persons have to work hard for to some of these high offending creatures! They?ve lost those rights IMO! Where are the funds now found to sustain aftercare support for these victims when it?s been soaked up & wasted making life cozy for these monsters in our care?
Let's face it Instar! Everything we do has something that has been underlined by our politics! Our freedom has been brought about by politics! Even voicing our opinions are all byproducts of politics to some degree. So for you to say this is political you are right; perhaps I?d like to believe that this rally was apolitical, but where it was held dispels my ideology on whether it was political. Perhaps what I really want to believe is that the rally was designed to pressure the judges who make these decisions, and who are in a place of power, a gentle tap on the shoulder and reminded that their decisions are not reflective of the community!
Whilst I attended the rally yesterday, and could clearly see elements of finger pointing at certain elements of Victoria?s reining government! I'll make it no secret ? I?m no fan of Steve Bracks either! But I do not hold him responsible for what goes on in our justice system. Sure, any political party in power has the power to change certain aspects of the law, but this sort of thing isn?t regarding how the laws are written, it?s regarding how they are executed and when it comes to the crunch it rests firmly and squarely on the shoulders, & with the morals, of the judges who sentence these offenders! I don?t want new laws, or capital punishment! I want judges to show accountability and maturity in their decisions and show it through proper sentencing. Is that so hard?
The trouble is today people are not being held responsible for their actions. There is always some underlying reason as to why someone has done something wrong against someone else. It?s because we?ve all become too clever for our own good! Too damn politically correct in some cases! Let?s face it, as another example, what mentally competent person would take an AR-15, or whatever the hell it was, to shoot down 35 people in Tasmania? Women & kids! There would have been absolute outrage had Bryant been imprisoned for manslaughter or thrown in a mental asylum! What now then has changed? Why are people who kill families in drink driving accidents or who molest kids or rape women (lets not be forgetting men) getting off with slaps on the wrists and well-wishing by judges!? It?s because no one notices that one person screaming that?s its unfair! So yes, I must admit Instar, that now I look at it, 12 000+ people who are angry about some of these decisions, who are excluded emotionally from these victims plights, on the steps of parliament is very political, but I still believe its main aim was directed at waking up our judges and perhaps placing pressure on the running works of the Victorian DPP. Probably the rally would have been more effective in front of the Melbourne Supreme court? That to me would have sent more of a message. So as for yesterday, what did it achieve? Who knows? I was glad if only for one 7yr old girl, I showed up to say I think that judge was wrong and she has been treated unfairly by the system.
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