New Snake Feeding

[Wally]

Don't offer food for a couple wèeks to a month and see how you go.

 

[Buggster]

While I would never consider myself an authority on diamonds I have been keeping them for around 15 years now & breeding for 5 so I do believe I have some idea as to what I'm talking about.
Its not too hot for a diamond. Even my adults have a hot spot of 33-35 though the hours are reduced. (They will bask on 40 degree days in the wild)
24/7 heat is given to all my hatchies until they are established feeders. In the case of some problem feeders this has been as long as the 2nd winter though normally its only done during the 1st winter.
As this animal is being fed something so small as fuzzie mice we can assume its one of last years hatchies and it hasn't been eating for a considerable time. (Or its a very early animal from this season and again hasnt been feeding) Either way the animal is obviously NOT an established eater based from the information available.

You mention DPS and if I remember correctly those temps/hours of heat were advised to you on this forum by myself and a couple of other's who have experience with diamonds. They are appropriate, for an established animal. This one needs to get used to eating so the idea is to artificially increase its ability to digest so it can be fed 3-4 meals in a short time period to get it to a stage where it is established.

Well you’re my go-to expert on Diamonds! I think perhaps I worded my reply incorrectly- perhaps it would have been better to say that it’s being offered heat for ‘too hot for too long’ instead of just ‘too hot’.

Just going off breeding times (and assuming this is a young animal), I did assume it was around the 1-1.5 year age mark (although I could be wrong), so I would expect it to be an established feeder who is either
a) still a bit slow out of brumation (although this seems less likely as the poster has stated it is on 24/7 heat)
b) still a bit nervous from the move

Obviously it could be a whole range of reasons (or no reason at all), so just trying to throw out a few suggestions.



And in terms of feeding, I don’t know how effective this will be for you, but when my Diamond was just starting to eat again he was obviously very interested (‘S’ing up, tongue flicking, following the food) but wouldn’t take it. I found very gently tapping him on his neck with the mouses face made him go food crazy and immediately wrapped around his food.

Same thing for my Woma if he’s being a bit slow I’ll rub the rat up and down his body to get a coil response from him.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

The food I offer is fully thawed and heated by putting the mouse in a zip-lock bag and submerging it in warm water, (just a precaution if he's fussy about wet prey). He looks interested in the mouse, he will put himself in a striking position and also put his head right up to it as if he's checking it out, but he won't take it

Hello there, You have been given a lot of good advice so far, I'd just like to mention that perhaps you should try a different method of thawing your feeder rodent... ditch the zip lock bag and place the frozen rodent directly into hot water from your kitchen tap (NOT the kettle.) I'm currently thawing hopper mice like this in about 3-4 minutes and my spotted python and Stimsons python take them no worries at all... I think (maybe) your snake is showing interest but is deterred by the lack of a significant heat signature or perhaps lack of scent... if the direct thawing in hot water alone without the zip lock bag doesn't yield results, then I would suggest using your feeding tongs and making a small tear to the skin on the nose of your thawed rodent just prior to offering it... also, the manner in which you present the feeder also can be important... don't simply hold it by the tail and dangle it infront of the snake so it's swinging like a pendulum... grasp it with your tongs by the skin on the back behind the shoulders and present the rodent head first, horizontally. Don't shove it in the snake's face either, get it close enough so that it knows it's there and move it slowly side to side... also, offer the food at night, soon after dusk, not during the daylight hours. I believe your snake is hungry enough and ready to feed, you just have to find the trigger you're currently missing.

Have a look at this following video, the tips in this helped me when I first started.

 

[Fall guys]

What you could try is just leaving it in a plastic bag and putting on a window seal, I guess this will cause a smelly food. I do that or wrap in paper towel on my window seal. Never have problems, if it’s still a bit cold by night, I’ll put in warm water

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

What you could try is just leaving it in a plastic bag and putting on a window seal, I guess this will cause a smelly food. I do that or wrap in paper towel on my window seal. Never have problems, if it’s still a bit cold by night, I’ll put in warm water

I guess the only issue with a slow thaw like that method is that if the food item is rejected, you cannot re-freeze it and have wasted a rodent... With a quick hot water thaw, in a couple of minutes, if the item is rejected, it can be safely re-frozen.

 

[Scutellatus]

I guess the only issue with a slow thaw like that method is that if the food item is rejected, you cannot re-freeze it and have wasted a rodent... With a quick hot water thaw, in a couple of minutes, if the item is rejected, it can be safely re-frozen.

Where is this information about re-freezing foods after defrosting with hot water from? As far as I know the only time re-freezing is an option is if the item has been defrosted at below 5c to prevent any bacterial growth.
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Hello there, You have been given a lot of good advice so far, I'd just like to mention that perhaps you should try a different method of thawing your feeder rodent... ditch the zip lock bag and place the frozen rodent directly into hot water from your kitchen tap (NOT the kettle.) I'm currently thawing hopper mice like this in about 3-4 minutes and my spotted python and Stimsons python take them no worries at all... I think (maybe) your snake is showing interest but is deterred by the lack of a significant heat signature or perhaps lack of scent... if the direct thawing in hot water alone without the zip lock bag doesn't yield results, then I would suggest using your feeding tongs and making a small tear to the skin on the nose of your thawed rodent just prior to offering it... also, the manner in which you present the feeder also can be important... don't simply hold it by the tail and dangle it infront of the snake so it's swinging like a pendulum... grasp it with your tongs by the skin on the back behind the shoulders and present the rodent head first, horizontally. Don't shove it in the snake's face either, get it close enough so that it knows it's there and move it slowly side to side... also, offer the food at night, soon after dusk, not during the daylight hours. I believe your snake is hungry enough and ready to feed, you just have to find the trigger you're currently missing.

Have a look at this following video, the tips in this helped me when I first started.

Putting it in water without a bag will destroy any scent on the rodent when they don't have a proper hair structure. Also when feeding with tongs holding around the head area can injure the snakes teeth if it happens to strike hard and hit the tongs in the process.

 

[Fall guys]

I guess the only issue with a slow thaw like that method is that if the food item is rejected, you cannot re-freeze it and have wasted a rodent... With a quick hot water thaw, in a couple of minutes, if the item is rejected, it can be safely re-frozen.

As scutellatus said, either way is cause for bacteria growth. If there’s anything I learned during school it was the temp zone that bacteria thrives in and that’s 5-60° so either way will get bacteria if not eaten

 

[Yellowtail]

Hello there, You have been given a lot of good advice so far, I'd just like to mention that perhaps you should try a different method of thawing your feeder rodent... ditch the zip lock bag and place the frozen rodent directly into hot water from your kitchen tap (NOT the kettle.) I'm currently thawing hopper mice like this in about 3-4 minutes and my spotted python and Stimsons python take them no worries at all... I think (maybe) your snake is showing interest but is deterred by the lack of a significant heat signature or perhaps lack of scent... if the direct thawing in hot water alone without the zip lock bag doesn't yield results, then I would suggest using your feeding tongs and making a small tear to the skin on the nose of your thawed rodent just prior to offering it... also, the manner in which you present the feeder also can be important... don't simply hold it by the tail and dangle it infront of the snake so it's swinging like a pendulum... grasp it with your tongs by the skin on the back behind the shoulders and present the rodent head first, horizontally. Don't shove it in the snake's face either, get it close enough so that it knows it's there and move it slowly side to side... also, offer the food at night, soon after dusk, not during the daylight hours. I believe your snake is hungry enough and ready to feed, you just have to find the trigger you're currently missing.

Have a look at this following video, the tips in this helped me when I first started.

I've seen this video and I can show you how easy it is to feed fuzzy mice to 2 Month olds as well, mine will eat wet mice, dry mice, any mice, presented in any way.
Like to see him feeding new hatchlings for the first time, that's a lot harder.

 

[Scutellatus]

As scutellatus said, either way is cause for bacteria growth. If there’s anything I learned during school it was the temp zone that bacteria thrives in and that’s 5-60° so either way will get bacteria if not eaten

I wouldn't be defrosting at room temperature either @Bl69aze. Both will grow bacteria but your way will have a lot more due to the timeframe of defosting.
The safest method is to defrost straight from the freezer in a bag in hot water and discard any uneaten food, after all we are talking about a $2 food item.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Where is this information about re-freezing foods after defrosting with hot water from? As far as I know the only time re-freezing is an option is if the item has been defrosted at below 5c to prevent any bacterial growth.
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Putting it in water without a bag will destroy any scent on the rodent when they don't have a proper hair structure. Also when feeding with tongs holding around the head area can injure the snakes teeth if it happens to strike hard and hit the tongs in the process.

The scent isn't removed completely, all you have to do is dry it off with paper towel... ever petted a wet dog after its been swimming or in the rain?? Plenty of scent there and I've never once said to hold the feeder by the head with tongs... hold them by the back behind the shoulders.
[doublepost=1513380693][/doublepost]

As scutellatus said, either way is cause for bacteria growth. If there’s anything I learned during school it was the temp zone that bacteria thrives in and that’s 5-60° so either way will get bacteria if not eaten

If you thaw out a rodent in 2-4 mins in hot water without putting it in a bag, offer the item, if rejected (I'm talking no more than a couple of mins) you'd be right to pop it straight back in the freezer.. You couldn't persist for half hour, give up then re freeze.

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

I have no problems chucking them straight in hot water all bar one of my hatchies last season ate 1st go, if I had problems feeders I may have chucked the mice in a bag to keep more scent. Also if you own more than one snake just give any unwanted food to a willing participant

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Yep, straight into the hot water is the way to go.

 

[Scutellatus]

The scent isn't removed completely, all you have to do is dry it off with paper towel... ever petted a wet dog after its been swimming or in the rain?? Plenty of scent there and I've never once said to hold the feeder by the head with tongs... hold them by the back behind the shoulders.
[doublepost=1513380693][/doublepost]
If you thaw out a rodent in 2-4 mins in hot water without putting it in a bag, offer the item, if rejected (I'm talking no more than a couple of mins) you'd be right to pop it straight back in the freezer.. You couldn't persist for half hour, give up then re freeze.

Yes I have patted a wet dog, yes they do stink but they still have hair though remember which holds the majority of their scent.
Back of the head or between the shoulders doesn't really make much difference. Either way the tongs are still present in a position where they can be hit. Holding from the tail reduces the risk of injury to the snake.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Disagree. Never had a problem with either. Present exactly how depicted in the video.

 

[dragonlover1]

we defrost our rodents/quail in the fridge,then we put the food item on a plate suspended above hot tap water in a saucepan to warm it up.All 10 of our pythons eat this way and never a problem unless in slough,although the diamond and 1 of the blonde macs never refuse even if in shed.

 

[Fall guys]

You get more of a smell when it’s literally sitting in its smell rather than quickly taking it out of freezer.

If you do it too hot you risk ruining it, same with cooking, you can’t just chuck it into hot water, because it cooks the outside too fast more than the rest..

I’ve never had a problem with my way, you guys never had a problem with your way.

If snake doesn’t eat.. great it’s 2$ I don’t get to use..

 

[Yellowtail]

Like I said above, once hatchlings are 2 Mths old and feeding you can offer them anyway and they will eat, they just need to be around body temp and not cooked. Problem is getting baby hatchlings to eat the first time when they have no natural instinct to eat mice.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

You get more of a smell when it’s literally sitting in its smell rather than quickly taking it out of freezer.

If you do it too hot you risk ruining it, same with cooking, you can’t just chuck it into hot water, because it cooks the outside too fast more than the rest..

I’ve never had a problem with my way, you guys never had a problem with your way.

If snake doesn’t eat.. great it’s 2$ I don’t get to use..

Hot tap water won't cook a frozen rodent... boiled water from the kettle would though.

 

[Fall guys]

Hot tap wayer won't cook a frozen rodent... boiled water from the kettle would though.

Maybe your tap won’t, mine would it gets extremely hot

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

The Australian standard is 65° I believe to inhibit the growth of legionella. I will however take a laser thermometer reading now to see exactly what temp my hot water is coming out at...I use a standard drinking glass.. 300-400ml of hot tap water and 1-2 frozen hoppers is a good scenario. The rodents thaw quickly without burning because the water cools quickly too as the rodent/s thaw... You don't need a bucket of scalding water to defrost a rodent for 1-2 snakes. A little common sense goes a long way here...
[doublepost=1513389252,1513389137][/doublepost]And thw verdict is.... 60.7° that's not cooking a frozen mouse in 3-4 mins.