Newbie S.A. in need of a bit of advice

[Ann-Maree]

Trying real hard not to be a terrible snake owner : in prep lv read hours+ worth of info about snakes. Done what l thought was probably the best thing, thou it probably cost me a bit extra and bought a set up and snake ( 6month spotted phython ) from a reptile shop with a good rep. Followed the instructions they gave me.
Came home assembled the kit, put snake in waited until the day they said to feed it. Fed it .. that went really well. Good ok. Now wait for a few days until I can start handling it, for 10/15 mins a day to start with. And while it seemed a bit nervous ( a little heavy breathing) but ok at the shop it seems to have just had a huge panic attack when l went to handle it the first time at home. I know that they can get scared. But what do l do about it? Just wait ? Firstly it struck out 3 times ... l moved away after the first strike. Closed the glass door and sat down .. it decided it wasn't happy about that either and struck out again this time falling off the hide and just wagged it's tail like a happy dog, that it's not :/ now it's not moving, just wrapped up between the hide and wall ... probably cos it's totally stressed out? I really want to establish a good relationship with my snake ld appreciate some advice. Including if lm ment to post this elsewhere.
I don't want an unhappy snake

 

[Scutellatus]

Just persevere with what you are doing. Each snake is different and with the move from the shop to your house it will be a little unsettled. If you haven't already, get yourself a hook and use that to remove the snake from the enclosure. Once out use gentle touches down around the tail to let it know you aren't a threat. Once it realises you aren't trying to eat it, it will accept the handling.

 

[Ann-Maree]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
I did pick up a hook pre snake and used that in the way directed. .. touch the snake with the hook on it's side to let it know it's going to be picked up?
Poor thing l walked past it a few minutes ago and it flew out again. Iv place a cloth over the front of enclosure to try to relax it abit. I hope that's ok?
I see this is going to take a bit longer that I was told but that's ok. Iv been working up to this for a couple of years.

 

[Scutellatus]

Let it settle for a few days. After that you can try pulling it out and resting the snake and hook on you leg. It may take time but should eventually come around. We have a childrens that even after owning it for 4 years will still sometimes strike when you walk past. Another thing to try would be moving the enclosure to a higher position. Having enclosures down low seems to make striking out more prevalent.

 

[vampstorso]

What are your temps? Is it a bit cold?
Also was the heavy breathing intentional huffing/hissing or just the way it was breathing?


A HUGE thing with handling snakes is do not hesitate. Just grab them straight out of the enclosure. Do not hover around them thinking about it as it makes them think you're trying to eat them and they will strike.
I know this isn't your whole problem but it may be part of it.

 

[Ann-Maree]

What are your temps? Is it a bit cold?
Also was the heavy breathing intentional huffing/hissing or just the way it was breathing?


A HUGE thing with handling snakes is do not hesitate. Just grab them straight out of the enclosure. Do not hover around them thinking about it as it makes them think you're trying to eat them and they will strike.
I know this isn't your whole problem but it may be part of it.

Yes it is a bit cold here ... and lv been concerned about that. On the cool side it can drop to 19/20 degrees and the warm side between 25 and 30. It was recommended, when l.bought the set up, that l place ceramic tiles under and on top of the heat pad. Im sure that's the only thing that's really helping to retain any real heat atm. Buying a "set up" from a breeder l thought it would be fine. In reality, I just don't know ... it could be the house or location or the set up not fabulous. The heavy breathing or panting seemed to occur when going over and having a look at how things were going ... the snake " no name yet " seemed stressed. It doesn't do it all the time.
I think I'II let 'no name' chill out for a week and try again without hesitating. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.

 

[Snapped]

Let the snake settle in for a week or two before trying to handle it. Hot spot needs to be closer to 32, do you have a pic of your set up? Is there enough hides so that the snake feels secure? Is the enclosure in a high traffic area?
Once the snake feels settled, then you can grab the snake out with the hook confidently, and let him slither through your hands for 5 mins or so, then put him back. Wait 2 days and do it again. Don't handle for at least 48 hours after feeding, or when the snake is coming up to a shed, as they are quite vulnerable.
This is a really good article, helps you understand what snakes need to feel secure Read "Home Sweet Home" and "Snake Empathy", you'll gain great knowledge from just those two articles, enjoy.
http://www.southernxreptiles.com/RA ARTICLE PAGE.htm

 

[vampstorso]

Yes it is a bit cold here ... and lv been concerned about that. On the cool side it can drop to 19/20 degrees and the warm side between 25 and 30. It was recommended, when l.bought the set up, that l place ceramic tiles under and on top of the heat pad. Im sure that's the only thing that's really helping to retain any real heat atm. Buying a "set up" from a breeder l thought it would be fine. In reality, I just don't know ... it could be the house or location or the set up not fabulous. The heavy breathing or panting seemed to occur when going over and having a look at how things were going ... the snake " no name yet " seemed stressed. It doesn't do it all the time.
I think I'II let 'no name' chill out for a week and try again without hesitating. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.

That's good about only huffing when you were near, as you may have guessed I was asking in case it was showing signs of respiratory infection.

I agree with others it sounds like your hot end could be warmer.
Do you have a hide over the heated area as well as one in the cold? This can help trap some heat in

Sorry if I've missed this, I'm juggling a newborn as I type,
But what type of heating and what size of enclosure do you have?


Some snakes also do not appreciate hooks, generally because they're cold I suspect... We too would jump if someone touched us with a piece of ice.
So if you continue with a hook it may also help to just warm the hook up under some warm water or in your hand/under your leg for a bit.

But honestly I think just grabbing it will prove best, as hooks can also be fiddly and take a bit to get the snake, so can come accross as similar to hesitating.

With that said, I stress I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by using a hook, you totally aren't. A hook is fine, especially if it helps with your confidence.


On the bright side, hatches are often grumpy bums as they're the bottom of the food chain, spotted pythons are already small so they would be feeling particularly vulnerable.
With added size will come more confidence from the snake and they tend to relax more.


Handling around shed isn't really a problem, some people prefer not too, I've not had a problem.
The most important point about handling soon after feeding is that sucker might throw up a half digested rodent on you, but again it's unlikely.
So don't stress if for whatever reason you need too/choose to handle at these times.

 

[Nero Egernia]

A HUGE thing with handling snakes is do not hesitate. Just grab them straight out of the enclosure. Do not hover around them thinking about it as it makes them think you're trying to eat them and they will strike.

Yep, this applies to just about all reptiles. Don't hesitate. It makes you nervous, and it makes the reptiles nervous. The other week I was in a pet shop and a mother and child were wanting to look at some juvenile blue-tongues. The pet shop employee was attempting to catch them but he was hovering and hesitating, causing the lizards to lunge and run for cover. The back and forth "chasies" were going on for more than five minutes until I offered to catch them for him. I reached in, no hesitations, and done. Easy. Simple. The lizards were secured in a matter of seconds.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

I don't keep spotted's so my information is from those that do. Apparently its quite common for these to become a little bit tetchy as they get to 2-3 years old.
Also you need to understand that some snakes just don't calm down ever. I have had animals from the same clutch, treated the same way where 1 sibling was as placid as can be while another was always trying to take your arm off.

It is also generally accepted that snakes don't want or need to be handled by us, some will put up with it while others don't.
they can be particularly sensitive to some scents, even having a dislike for 1 particular family member. If you wear perfumes or strong deodorants maybe try handling after a shower and see if there is a change. Are there other pets in the house that may make the snake a little more defensive/stressed.

If your heat source is struggling to provide the appropriate temperature is the thermostat set correctly? If the heating is working flat out and not getting to temperature move the enclosure to a warmer room or away from window/outside walls. Protect the enclosure from draughts. Is the enclosure glass? If so you can insulate it on the outside. Is there too much venting in the enclosure that is letting all the heat escape?

Sorry if I'm rambling but Im on my lunch break and dont have time atm to go into tons of detail.

 

[Ann-Maree]

Let the snake settle in for a week or two before trying to handle it. Hot spot needs to be closer to 32, do you have a pic of your set up? Is there enough hides so that the snake feels secure? Is the enclosure in a high traffic area?
Once the snake feels settled, then you can grab the snake out with the hook confidently, and let him slither through your hands for 5 mins or so, then put him back. Wait 2 days and do it again. Don't handle for at least 48 hours after feeding, or when the snake is coming up to a shed, as they are quite vulnerable.
This is a really good article, helps you understand what snakes need to feel secure Read "Home Sweet Home" and "Snake Empathy", you'll gain great knowledge from just those two articles, enjoy.
http://www.southernxreptiles.com/RA ARTICLE PAGE.htm

Thanks for the articals!
And advice. .. l think l'll look at moving the set up as it's near a doorway and couch. There is minimal amount of activitie here but still a quieter area would probably help. There is one hide over the warm area. I'II try to post a photo.

 

[Ann-Maree]

Yep, this applies to just about all reptiles. Don't hesitate. It makes you nervous, and it makes the reptiles nervous. The other week I was in a pet shop and a mother and child were wanting to look at some juvenile blue-tongues. The pet shop employee was attempting to catch them but he was hovering and hesitating, causing the lizards to lunge and run for cover. The back and forth "chasies" were going on for more than five minutes until I offered to catch them for him. I reached in, no hesitations, and done. Easy. Simple. The lizards were secured in a matter of seconds.

That's good about only huffing when you were near, as you may have guessed I was asking in case it was showing signs of respiratory infection.

I agree with others it sounds like your hot end could be warmer.
Do you have a hide over the heated area as well as one in the cold? This can help trap some heat in

Sorry if I've missed this, I'm juggling a newborn as I type,
But what type of heating and what size of enclosure do you have?


Some snakes also do not appreciate hooks, generally because they're cold I suspect... We too would jump if someone touched us with a piece of ice.
So if you continue with a hook it may also help to just warm the hook up under some warm water or in your hand/under your leg for a bit.

But honestly I think just grabbing it will prove best, as hooks can also be fiddly and take a bit to get the snake, so can come accross as similar to hesitating.

With that said, I stress I am not saying you are doing anything wrong by using a hook, you totally aren't. A hook is fine, especially if it helps with your confidence.


On the bright side, hatches are often grumpy bums as they're the bottom of the food chain, spotted pythons are already small so they would be feeling particularly vulnerable.
With added size will come more confidence from the snake and they tend to relax more.


Handling around shed isn't really a problem, some people prefer not too, I've not had a problem.
The most important point about handling soon after feeding is that sucker might throw up a half digested rodent on you, but again it's unlikely.
So don't stress if for whatever reason you need too/choose to handle at these times.

congratulations on the new one
l rekon your right about the hook and warming it up, it was pretty cold here this morning.
thanks for pointing out the long term projection, bottom of the food chain etc, l had that oh no lv broken it feeling this morning ... l hope No Name is a little forgiving of my initial mistakes! while lm learning

 

[vampstorso]

Also, clearly not as attractive as a bigger glass enclosure, but you could consider putting it in a click clack enclosure until you're able to get a larger heat source

 

[Ann-Maree]

This is the set up atm

Also, clearly not as attractive as a bigger glass enclosure, but you could consider putting it in a click clack enclosure until you're able to get a larger heat source

Yeah l was thinking about that ... maybe it has to much space and it's a bit overwhelming for a little snake. You've all given me a lot to think about. It's all very well to have good intentions and read about a subject but nothing beats experience!

 

[vampstorso]

This is the set up atm View attachment 321014

Yeah l was thinking about that ... maybe it has to much space and it's a bit overwhelming for a little snake. You've all given me a lot to think about. It's all very well to have good intentions and read about a subject but nothing beats experience!

Thanks for the congratulations


I don't personally think there's a problem keeping small snakes in large enclosures, you've just got to be diligent about making sure there's no gaps a smaller snake can get through like between sliding glass doors etc.
I think the problem here has to do with heat
Snakes can be flighty when they're cold as they've got less energy to allow for a successful getaway.


Perhaps you could add an appropriate wattage ceramic heat emitter to that enclosure?
Or if that's not possible, a longer heat cord to heat a larger area.
Or do you have a heat mat? I've not had much luck with those but others love them.

 

[vampstorso]

You can get heat tape from bunnings (metal tape) and tape small sections of heat cord in a circular or back and forth design on a tile to make your own heat mat, it often works better in my experience.

If you're feeling a little fancy and more skilled than I, you can use a router to make a track in some wood to thread the heat cord around. We used to have an old thread showing these two options, not sure if they're still around as some threads got lost.

 

[Ann-Maree]

I don't keep spotted's so my information is from those that do. Apparently its quite common for these to become a little bit tetchy as they get to 2-3 years old.
Also you need to understand that some snakes just don't calm down ever. I have had animals from the same clutch, treated the same way where 1 sibling was as placid as can be while another was always trying to take your arm off.

It is also generally accepted that snakes don't want or need to be handled by us, some will put up with it while others don't.
they can be particularly sensitive to some scents, even having a dislike for 1 particular family member. If you wear perfumes or strong deodorants maybe try handling after a shower and see if there is a change. Are there other pets in the house that may make the snake a little more defensive/stressed.

If your heat source is struggling to provide the appropriate temperature is the thermostat set correctly? If the heating is working flat out and not getting to temperature move the enclosure to a warmer room or away from window/outside walls. Protect the enclosure from draughts. Is the enclosure glass? If so you can insulate it on the outside. Is there too much venting in the enclosure that is letting all the heat escape?

Sorry if I'm rambling but Im on my lunch break and dont have time atm to go into tons of detail.

No deodorants etc but do have a old kelpie .. and a magpie that visits a couple of times a day. But no interactions there. Still might be a cause of stress. The thermostat should be ok but l'll double check that. I ended up blocking the lower vent up by leaning a few books against it .. that helped increase the temperature.
I hadn't thought about snakes selectively liking or disliking. That a good bit of knowledge to put in the hat.

 

[Ann-Maree]

Thanks for the congratulations


I don't personally think there's a problem keeping small snakes in large enclosures, you've just got to be diligent about making sure there's no gaps a smaller snake can get through like between sliding glass doors etc.
I think the problem here has to do with heat
Snakes can be flighty when they're cold as they've got less energy to allow for a successful getaway.


Perhaps you could add an appropriate wattage ceramic heat emitter to that enclosure?
Or if that's not possible, a longer heat cord to heat a larger area.
Or do you have a heat mat? I've not had much luck with those but others love them.

That makes alot of sense, feeling a bit vulnerable when cold.
It came with a heat mat.
I did wonder about an extra globe of some kind. And maybe adding a extra socket for it to get put into.
Would you place it anywhere particular, cold size, warm side or central?

 

[vampstorso]

That makes alot of sense, feeling a bit vulnerable when cold.
It came with a heat mat.
I did wonder about an extra globe of some kind. And maybe adding a extra socket for it to get put into.
Would you place it anywhere particular, cold size, warm side or central?

Id suggest getting a ceramic fitting (if you use a plastic fitting it will melt) and then a ceramic heat emitting globe. Get the smallest wattage you can so if your Thermostat ever fails you don't fry the snake.
Put it down the hot end


You can get Ceramic Heat emitters (CHE) on eBay very cheap. I've not had any problem with them from ebay. Pet stores may be cheaper than they were years ago but used to be a rip off in my cheap opinion.

The shape or colour is personal preference. I used black or white flat ones. But the dome is also fine. It's just a slight matter of directing heat mildly better.

 

[Ann-Maree]

Id suggest getting a ceramic fitting (if you use a plastic fitting it will melt) and then a ceramic heat emitting globe. Get the smallest wattage you can so if your Thermostat ever fails you don't fry the snake.
Put it down the hot end


You can get Ceramic Heat emitters (CHE) on eBay very cheap. I've not had any problem with them from ebay. Pet stores may be cheaper than they were years ago but used to be a rip off in my cheap opinion.

The shape or colour is personal preference. I used black or white flat ones. But the dome is also fine. It's just a slight matter of directing heat mildly better.

Ok thanks l'll look into that today.