no exotics!!

[Hickson]

As I have always said I am in favour of legalising exotics NOT importing them ..................
.....................exotics are still apparently flooding into the country.

I've said it before: legalising exotics will increase the illegal importation into this country, because you will create a legal market for the smuggler to offload his contraband. And you'll also get the collector who wants something few other people have, so species not currently here will be brought in as well to satisfy that demand.

Legalise exotics today (but not importation) and by the end of the year there'll be Jags, Carpondros, Boelens's, Piebald Balls and Borneo Batwings available.



Hix

 

[soulweaver]

I like what Australia has and the way things are now, but i do think that exotics will one day allowed.

Reason being is that they are already here. Seems lately more and more busts are being made and people being caught, but i think for everyone caught another two start up.

The main reason for keeping exotics out would have to be disease, but if the diseases and exotics are already here then what is being kept out.

So like i said, i like things the way they are, but i think that import/export will one day happen. Espically with more and more people entering the hobby all the time.

 

[Hickson]

But the diseases aren't already here.



Hix

 

[Retic]

I also like what this country has but I also like reptiles from every other corner of the world. I'm not insular, I just appreciate a nice looking reptile regardless of where it is from. IF there are any diseases then they have been here for a great many years.
The odd bust of half a dozen animals here and there I don't think will have any affect on anything, the serious breeders aren't on the radar and they aren't these drug dealers that get busted with a couple of animals.

 

[Retic]

Which diseases aren't here and how do you know ?

But the diseases aren't already here.



Hix

 

[waruikazi]

The problem is not that there will be escapees it is more the problem of irrisponsible keepers who decide that they can't keep their 20ft retic or burm or green anaconda any more and release into the wild where we *might* end up with a situation like in the everglades in the US. This type of situation is unlikely in southern states where it is cold and a 20" python would be spotted pretty easily but in the NT, northern queensland and nothern WA it is a much more likely scenario where there is alot of prey for these large pythons and the environment is similar to what they have in their home ranges.

That said i would be the first to own a Ball Python if they were legalised in Aus!

 

[Retic]

The scenario you describe is exactly as it is now, because there are no controls these animals are being kept completely unregulated. As I have said before the situation in the Everglades is VERY different, in Florida these huge snakes were sold in pet shops to anyone with $100, they soon outgrew their cages and were released, the big difference is they were being released in viable numbers which enabled them to breed and flourish in ideal conditions.
If they were kept by experienced keepers and paid say a $1000 for a permit at least those animals would be controlled, that wouldn't do anything about the huge number of illegal exotics but then again the present situation doesn't address that problem either.

 

[Australis]

The scenario you describe is exactly as it is now, because there are no controls these animals are being kept completely unregulated. As I have said before the situation in the Everglades is VERY different, in Florida these huge snakes were sold in pet shops to anyone with $100, they soon outgrew their cages and were released, the big difference is they were being released in viable numbers which enabled them to breed and flourish in ideal conditions.
.

But Boa, if exotic become legal, the next thing will be people saying they should be sold in petshops, and before you know it, QLD will be the next Florida.

Matt

 

[CodeRed]

...
The odd bust of half a dozen animals here and there I don't think will have any affect on anything, the serious breeders aren't on the radar and they aren't these drug dealers that get busted with a couple of animals.

but I thought all the exotics breeders were drug dealers too :roll: :twisted:

 

[Hickson]

Finally, after hinting at it in several exotic threads, someone asks me the correct question (I would have hoped someone would have gone and researched it themselves as I've hinted at where to look too).

Here are the diseases/parasites/microroganisms carried by snakes (not worrying about lizards) that are not presently found in Australia:

Leptospira spp.
Alphavirus (Eastern equine encephalomyelitis virus (EEEV), Western EEV, Venezuelan EEV)
Japanese encephalitis virus
Mycoplasma spp.
Adenoviridae (Snake adenovirus)
Gammaretrovirus (Viper retrovirus - formerly reptilian type C oncovirus)
Herpesviridae (Boid herpesvirus I, Elapid herpesvirus I)
Iridovirus (Snake erythrocytic virus)
Ophidian paramyxovirus (Fer de lance virus)
Ranavirus (Wamena virus)
Reoviridae (Python orthoreovirus, Rattlesnake orthoreovirus)
Retroviridae (Inclusion Body Disease of Boids)
Amplicaecum spp.
Camallanides spp.
Camallanus spp. from snakes
Dracunculus spp.
Eustrongylides spp.
Gnathostoma spp.
Hexametra spp.
Kalicephalus spp.
Macdonaldius spp.
Meteterakis spp.
Ophidascaris spp.
Paracapillaria spp.
Physalopterinae (Abbreviata spp., Physaloptera spp., Skrjabinoptera colubri)
Rhabdias spp.
Strongyloides spp.
Terranova caballeroi
Travassosascaris araujoi
Bothridium spp.
Crepidobothrium spp.
Mesocestoides spp.
Oochoristica spp.
Spirometra spp.
Encyclometra spp.
Neodiplostomum major, N. spathoides, N. [Fibricola] seoulense
Ochetosoma spp.
Pneumatophilus spp.
Pulmovermis cyanovitellosus
Styphlodora spp.
Xenopharynx spp.
Centrorhynchus spp.
Sphaerechinorhynchus spp.
Porocephalidae (Armillifer spp., Kiricephalus spp., Porocephalus spp.)
Amblyomma spp.
Aponomma spp.
Ixodes ricinus
Ornithodoros spp.
Caryospora spp.
Eimeria spp.
Isospora spp.
Sarcocystis spp.
Tyzzeria boae


This list was compiled 4 years ago, since then three or four of the above organisms have been identified in captive collections, none have been found in wild snakes - yet.



Hix

 

[waruikazi]

Boa it is possible that this is happening ATM but i would think that if these animals were legalised (and i'm not saying they shouldn't be) the rate of them being released or lost would be much higher because of the larger number there would be in peoples collections. And if it does cost a million bucks for a permit i think that would put fuel into the black market trade of these snakes.

 

[Hickson]

I should also point out that many of those diseases listed above are zoonotic - many other animals can catch them. Some of those listed can be transmitted to humans and can cause death.



Hix

 

[Retic]

I think we all know that would never ever happen even if some people do ask for it, that will never happen.

But Boa, if exotic become legal, the next thing will be people saying they should be sold in petshops, and before you know it, QLD will be the next Florida.

Matt

 

[Retic]

Hix, yes I have seen the same list on 'Generic Import Risk Analysis (IRA) of Live Snakes'. It doesn't appear to be a list of diseases but rather mostly parasites that I assume may or may not carry a disease capable of affecting reptiles. I understand these aren't restricted to reptiles either ?
I have always been pretty much against importation except from an accepted zoo overseas.

 

[Hickson]

Many of those parasites are the disease, or cause it.



Hix

 

[Retic]

This is a serious question Hix, not being a parasitologist what risks do they represent ? I mean are they like the snake getting a cold or getting AIDS ?

Many of those parasites are the disease, or cause it.



Hix

 

[Hickson]

I'm not a parasitologist either, boa. Nor a pathologist.

The virus's, microrganisms and parasites listed above can cause a variety of diseases. Thre problem is, different species have different susceptibilities to the same pathogen. As Australian species have not been exposed to many of them, it's difficult to say how they will be affected although you can make some educated guesses. Most of those afflictions are recorded as affecting snakes and other animals overseas, so it's safe to assume the effects here would be the same or worse. The possiblity of a reptilian AIDS or Ebola is enough for me to say it's not worth it.

The document you saw is still under review. Some of those listed may be removed with further research.

Remember, in years gone by the first missionaries going to South America and Africa wiped out entire villages simply by introducing common - but exotic - diseases like the common cold, and the flu.



Hix

 

[Australis]

But Boa, if exotic become legal, the next thing will be people saying they should be sold in petshops, and before you know it, QLD will be the next Florida.

Matt

I think we all know that would never ever happen even if some people do ask for it, that will never happen.

Thats a rather bold comment Boa, Why wouldnt it happen?

..

 

[Retic]

I don't think it's very bold at all to be honest, there is only a slim chance experienced private keepers will ever be legally allowed to keep exotics, the chances of them being added to the commercial list is incredibly small.

 

[Australis]

Im confident legal import of exotics wont take place atleast in my lifetime, is it really so important to people to be able to keep the limited number of exotic species already in the country?

I always have a good laugh when reading "they are already here and being held in large numbers anyway"

Perhaps we should render Heroin legal, its being used already, or better yet illegal fire arms, hey you can buy them on the black market, there is alot available, lets make them legal also.
Matt