parthenogenesis in Coastal Carpet Pythons ???

[ronhalling]

Hi guys, i am new to your forum but after reading some of the content contained herein i have concluded that there are some pretty switched on people here, so here is my problem.
I have the pleasure to be the owner of a 5yr old female Coastal Carpet Python (Morelia spilota),up till now she has always fed and shed without any problems, she usually takes 1 extra large rat every 2 weeks but for the last 8 weeks she has refused food stoicoly, yesterday i was worried enough to take her to the vet (he is a reptile specialist), after a good checkup and a complete feel around her stomach he decided to xray her, surprise, surprise surprise she has a belly full of near fully formed eggs. for the time being we have adopted a wait and see approach to her condition, but if she starts to show any discomfort the vet has said he might give her a hormone injection to try and abort the eggs or open her up and remove them (not my prefered option).
on the interim i have been reading up on unfertilized egg laying in Australian Pythons and Parthanogenesis (virgin birth) in Ball Pythons was mentioned extensivly, but i have found no mention of it in "Morelia spilota".
So..... has anyone here had any experience with unfertilized eggs or Parthenogenesis in any of their Australian Pythons.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Has she ever been with a male before?

 

[Helikaon]

likelyhood is she will lay a clutch of infertile eggs its not coomon as most will reabsorb the follicules after ovulation if there is no mating. Have you recorded when she last shed, she should still go through the normal cycle of ovulation, pre-lay shed and then a few weeks later will lay, Offer a lay box and let her get comfortable and see if she will lay them.

 

[jairusthevirus21]

If she has ever been with a male... on the odd occasion, female pythons can apparently retain sperm for over two years... Il see if i can find the article...

 

[dannydee]

I would love to see how this thread goes, as I think it's a very interesting subject. I had this problem with my old female green iguana, it was a real worry at times. Anyway, with the snakes I used to keep I never had a problem because they were male or breeding females.

Now the only snakes I have are a female coastal and a male bredli. It worries me she might experience parthenogenesis, but like the other person, I can't find much info relating to the Morelia complex.

 

[The_Geeza]

How long have u had her?? its not common but they can retain sperm from what i have read in the past??? correct me if im wrong

 

[Xeaal]

Is her name Mary?

 

[Wrightpython]

Nature works in mysterious ways and just like Jurassic park nature will find a way

 

[ronhalling]

Short answer "no" she has never been with another snake before except for the first 12 weeks with her hatch mates

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i have had her since 12 weeks after hatching

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will keep all updated on her progress, as she is not just a pet she is a family member

 

[caliherp]

I was wondering when someone was going to start a thread about parthenogenesis. A couple years ago I gave one of my female Rhacodactylus ciliatus geckos the year off. Throughout the season she produced nothing but slugs till her second to the last clutch. My first thought/hope was parthenogenesis. Knowing they retain sperm for a year some two years I decided I'll wait to say anything till it hatched and grew up. Well it turned out like its dad so it wasent parthenogenesis. I've mostley heard about this happening with geckos. I'm interested to see if there has been any well documented cases of parthenogenesis in any Aussie herps.

 

[geckodan]

I was wondering when someone was going to start a thread about parthenogenesis. A couple years ago I gave one of my female Rhacodactylus ciliatus geckos the year off. Throughout the season she produced nothing but slugs till her second to the last clutch. My first thought/hope was parthenogenesis. Knowing they retain sperm for a year some two years I decided I'll wait to say anything till it hatched and grew up. Well it turned out like its dad so it wasent parthenogenesis. I've mostley heard about this happening with geckos. I'm interested to see if there has been any well documented cases of parthenogenesis in any Aussie herps.

Eastern Water Dragon Intellagama lesueurii .

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Dan... a couple of questions - is Intellagama the accepted genus name for Water Dragons now, and if in doubt about the gravidity of a reptile, is it better to untrasound than x-ray, to reduce the chances of damaging developing embryos?

Jamie

 

[ronhalling]

Hi there Jamie, xray was done as no male snake has ever been anywhere near our girl so developing embryos were not even in the equation at that time, but thank you for your input, all is most welcome

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Yes, I guessed that! I remember quite a few years ago in WA when the first attempts by (then called) Fisheries & Wildlife to captive breed the Western Swamp Tortoise were failing consistently. it took a visiting German turtle man to tell them that x-raying gravid females was causing the problem. Worth knowing if you suspect you have a gravid snake!

Jamie

 

[ronhalling]

I forgot to add that her last shed was 10 weeks ago.

 

[sharky]

Is her name Mary?

I have dibs on the Jesus snake when he's born!!!!!!! lol

 

[Bluetongue1]

Dannydee, Just to clarify if you are uncertain, “parthenogenesis” is the production of viable eggs by the female alone, such as virgin individual producing viable young.

Australian python do have the mechanism for sperm storage although from what I can gather there is not a lot of data available on the length of time sperm stored within the female can remain viable. The same is true of Australian geckoes and turtles. It is not unusual for turtles store viable sperm for 2 years or more.

Several populations of Bynoe’s Gecko (Heteronotia binoei) are exclusively parthenogenic, as is the introduced Flowerpot Snake (Ramphothyphlops braminus).

Danny, I am aware of sex determination in our Water Dragons being temperature dependent but not of parthenogenic reproduction. I would appreciate it if you have reference I access.

Mike

 

[dannydee]

Dannydee, Just to clarify if you are uncertain, “parthenogenesis” is the production of viable eggs by the female alone, such as virgin individual producing viable young.

Australian python do have the mechanism for sperm storage although from what I can gather there is not a lot of data available on the length of time sperm stored within the female can remain viable. The same is true of Australian geckoes and turtles. It is not unusual for turtles store viable sperm for 2 years or more.

Several populations of Bynoe’s Gecko (Heteronotia binoei) are exclusively parthenogenic, as is the introduced Flowerpot Snake (Ramphothyphlops braminus).

Danny, I am aware of sex determination in our Water Dragons being temperature dependent but not of parthenogenic reproduction. I would appreciate it if you have reference I access.

Mike

Cheers Mike, it seems I was a bit confused. I thought it was the proper name for an animal that is egg bound, which I now know is Dystocia[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT]​Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Helikaon]

Any chance you could post or pm me the copy of the xray, it would be interesting to see the position of the eggs, out of the ones i have seen the position of the eggs is more caudal when they are dystocic. it would also be interesting to see how radio opaque the shells are.

 

[geckodan]

Dan... a couple of questions - is Intellagama the accepted genus name for Water Dragons now, and if in doubt about the gravidity of a reptile, is it better to untrasound than x-ray, to reduce the chances of damaging developing embryos?

Jamie

Yes, Intelligama is the accepted name now. Information was provided to a museum staff member by myself, Hal Cogger and Scott Eipper that Isturius was wrong so they subsequently went and published it as their own original idea (available on Zootaxa)
A single xray will have no deleterious effects on an embryo at the late gestation stage.

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Dannydee, Just to clarify if you are uncertain, “parthenogenesis” is the production of viable eggs by the female alone, such as virgin individual producing viable young.

Australian python do have the mechanism for sperm storage although from what I can gather there is not a lot of data available on the length of time sperm stored within the female can remain viable. The same is true of Australian geckoes and turtles. It is not unusual for turtles store viable sperm for 2 years or more.

Several populations of Bynoe’s Gecko (Heteronotia binoei) are exclusively parthenogenic, as is the introduced Flowerpot Snake (Ramphothyphlops braminus).

Danny, I am aware of sex determination in our Water Dragons being temperature dependent but not of parthenogenic reproduction. I would appreciate it if you have reference I access.

Mike

The reference is a pers comm. in my unpublished book.