Pure Bred Pythons

[Nero Egernia]

Ah yes. The good old days. Where people kept reptiles simply because they were fascinating and beautiful. Not as money making commodities, not as status symbols, nor as their ticket for a chance to play God.

 

[pinefamily]

We've cut down on the number of reptiles we own, but have a collection of different species that interest us, not what we might be able to make money from. Thought about having a go at breeding a year or so ago, mainly for the benefit of our nieces and nephews, but chose not to because of the glut in the market.

 

[user 23122]

I started keeping reptiles in 2005 and the changes I have seen in the hobby have astounded me although I wasn't part of the old crew I have enjoyed the downturn in the hobby the last few years as all the ring in keepers that jumped on the bandwagon to make a quick buck have either stopped breeding or lost interest in their collection and long since moved them on. Sadly with all the cross breeding happening nowadays I am sure there would be some very poorly cared for animals living out their existence in collections where their market value makes them worthless to their keeper.

 

[Waterrat]

The hype is over. Many pet keepers are realising that snakes are not the best pets, the "business breeders" are realising that there is no money to be made and the shallow-minded hobbyists are loosing interest. What goes up, must come down.
Some mentioned the "good old days" when we used to swap and catch herps, we also developed a passion for knowledge on what reptiles really are, we were keen to understand their natural history and we tried to recreate their respective microhabitats in our enclosures. But, live goes on, no point in reminiscing, there are many good herpers amongst us and they are the ones who will keep the hobby alive.

I like Paul Theroux's words:
Anyone who knows one bird from another, one wild flower or tree from another, is capable of intensifying this feeling of discovery. A landscape looks
different when you know the names of things – and conversely can look exceedingly inhospitable and alien when it seems nameless. “

 

[reen08]

Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.

 

[kittycat17]

@reen08
I don't know if that was directed at me or not??
But I defintely don't breed for money hahaa, as I've said my hatchies won't be going anywhere until I find suitable homes for them
And my guys get regular vet checks to.... think my vet may be sick of me honestly haha with over 30 snakes at the moment and a 45 min trip to the vet, the money for the consult never has bothered me.


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[Waterrat]

reen08, I don't a single post from you in this thread. Where are you coming from?

 

[GBWhite]

Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.

WTF is this about???

 

[Snapped]

WTF is this about???

Probably in reply to an earlier comment by Pauls Pythons I think, which is below.

I hear what you are saying Kitty but the animals worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it not what the seller thinks its worth.
The market is over supplied and if people are not spending it makes it difficult.

Thing is everyone thinks they are going to make a mint as a breeder so everyone wants to have a go. (Without putting a great deal of thought into what it is they are producing). Hence the question on another thread earlier today, (what snake should I put with my jungle....remember?). It's behavior like this that is turning the hobby a bit sour at the moment.

Reen asked in another thread about what they should put their jungle with.

 

[Nero Egernia]

I think reen08's comment may have relations to the thread Pregnant Snake. I hope this clears things up. If my assumption is incorrect, then disregard this and my apologies.

EDIT: Oops, Snapped got in before me.

 

[Wally]

Well....

Back on track!

I personally have no problem paying for proof of provenance. If it's something I'm chasing and you can give me background on lineage then no probs.

But it's something that fewer people have the ability to do these days.

Disappointed you're not selling native greens anymore Michael. It was always a long term goal to own one of your critters.

 

[kittycat17]

Well....

Back on track!

I personally have no problem paying for proof of provenance. If it's something I'm chasing and you can give me background on lineage then no probs.

But it's something that fewer people have the ability to do these days.

Disappointed your not selling native greens anymore Michael. It was always a long term goal to own one of your critters.

Yes I love the lineage!! Nick Mutton especially does amazingly well written lineage charts!!
My hatchlings this season I can go back 3 gens on mums side and only the 2 on dads side as the granddads (a Coffs Harbour coastal) breeder is no longer in the hobby.


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[dragonlover1]

lineage charts like a dogs pedigree papers are a great idea but I think it will be a while before this happens

 

[kittycat17]

lineage charts like a dogs pedigree papers are a great idea but I think it will be a while before this happens

100% because it requires effort and actually knowing the lineage!!

Might have to go to the effort to do that for this clutch


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[Yellowtail]

Problem with lineage records is unlike dogs or horses a lot of snake breeders put multiple males over females to guarantee a result. Anyone who bought a snake from Simon Stone/Southern Cross will be aware he only provided information on the Dam. Personally I know the sire of my albinos because I am selectively breeding particular pairs but this also leads to missed seasons with unproven sires.

 

[kittycat17]

Problem with lineage records is unlike dogs or horses a lot of snake breeders put multiple males over females to guarantee a result. Anyone who bought a snake from Simon Stone/Southern Cross will be aware he only provided information on the Dam. Personally I know the sire of my albinos because I am selectively breeding particular pairs but this also leads to missed seasons with unproven sires.

That is a really fair point, something I didn't think about either!!!


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[Waterrat]

It's particularly difficult with GTPs because of illegal imports. Owners are reluctant to give true information and without such, the pedigree is worthless. It took a lot of effort to trace my mite phase family tree, but at least on one side I managed to get fair a way back. It's now my job to keep it going.

 

[kittycat17]

I love it @Waterrat, how did you do it??? On word?


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[Waterrat]

In photoshop.

 

[Nero Egernia]

I told myself I wouldn't post on this, as I may well devolve into an incomprehensible ranting mess, but I feel it had to be voiced. While I see the merit in documented lineages (I too like to know the ancestry of the reptiles I keep), I have misgivings. The world of pedigrees hardly ever benefits the animal. You only have to look at dogs and cats for example. Some people become near fanatical, obsessed with keeping bloodlines pure, even at the cost of the animal's health, breeding for more extreme features with each generation. They line-breed their chosen animals literally to death. Some breeds can't even reproduce without the aid of a vet. Many people appear to only care about winning shows, making money, or just like to play God simply because they can. It's already happening in reptiles as it is. In reptiles there's no breeds. There's no cross-breeds, mixed-breeds, or mongrels. They're species, sub-species, or hybrids, if you will. I can see the good intentions of documented lineages for our captive reptiles, but knowing human nature, someone's going to take it too far. Our native reptiles are not domesticated animals, they're not man made. They don't need "improving". Why don't we keep it that way?