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Oshkii said:
I told myself I wouldn't post on this, as I may well devolve into an incomprehensible ranting mess, but I feel it had to be voiced. While I see the merit in documented lineages (I too like to know the ancestry of the reptiles I keep), I have misgivings. The world of pedigrees hardly ever benefits the animal. You only have to look at dogs and cats for example. Some people become near fanatical, obsessed with keeping bloodlines pure, even at the cost of the animal's health, breeding for more extreme features with each generation. They line-breed their chosen animals literally to death. Some breeds can't even reproduce without the aid of a vet. Many people appear to only care about winning shows, making money, or just like to play God simply because they can. It's already happening in reptiles as it is. In reptiles there's no breeds. There's no cross-breeds, mixed-breeds, or mongrels. They're species, sub-species, or hybrids, if you will. I can see the good intentions of documented lineages for our captive reptiles, but knowing human nature, someone's going to take it too far. Our native reptiles are not domesticated animals, they're not man made. They don't need "improving". Why don't we keep it that way?
Click to expand...

Wasn't an incomprehensible ranting mess at all and I did think of this myself :)

True line breeding in cats and dogs has proved to be disastrous for many breeds (not only causing heart defects, breathing issues etc) but if an animal can't give birth on its own eg a bulldog or staffy why would you keep pushing them down that line! So on that I totally agree with you

I think with the recent obsession of mixing species where morphs are involved that lineages would be good for those still involved in pure and locality animals eg Palmerston jungles, Tanami Womas etc to prove the background of the animal.





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reen08 said:
Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.
Click to expand...

Interesting that this member gets indignant about possible constraints on who can breed, then, in the same sentence, suggests that in his/her opinion, it should be limited to 'only a handful of people" :)! Getting your otherwise healthy snakes "vet checked" every six months is a total waste of time, and especially money. Without symptoms, the vet can do nothing other than say your snakes are fine, then take your money and send you home. Does the vet take blood pressure, do a full blood workup, examine stools and take cloacal and buccal swabs every time you take it there? No, he just gives it a visual once-over and says it's fine. Any reasonably experienced herp keeper can do that.

Don't put yourself too far last matey, your snakes need you to be in good health. Can't comment on the quality of your house compared to your enclosures, but I'd love to have a look :)!
 
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My apologies if I sounded aggressive or if I offended anyone. That certainly was not my intention. What I was trying to say/ask is what particular colors would come out if you mated a jungle with a different type. It could be any other snake for that matter ie, coastals, children't, woma etc I asked the question not to 'breed' but I like to do fantasy drawing and would have liked to integrate some into them.

Re breeding. Personally I'm not interested in that side of things, I just like to enjoy them and treat them as members of my family. On the other hand I know there are irresponsible breeders out there that are just in it for the money. Which is a shame. Does anyone think it would be possible to have a handful of breeders specializing in a different species in each state? That way you would be definate in knowing the lineage. A lot of people say "Yeah, it's a pure bred" when it's not.

Also why is everyone against jungle carpets? Sure they may get neurological problems but doesn't every species including humans have one thing or another. I've previously had a few j carpets which had no neurological problems that just passed on from old age. Don't get me wrong. If you have young jg that show neuro problems you definately wouldn't breed from that. Otherwise, they are a beautiful snake. No different to any other. BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
 
@reen08

Jungles don't have neurological issues....
The jaguar morph does cause neurological issues in the snakes that have the morph though


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pythoninfinite. I was saying maybe have a handful of breeders in each state so you definately know the lineage and that the snakes are well looked after to weed out those that are irresponsible and could not care less about the health and well being of the animal. A bit like dog breeders. To make sure there's no inbreeding, health issues etc.
 
kittycat17. Does my post make sense this time or is still mish mash?
 
reen08 said:
kittycat17. Does my post make sense this time or is still mish mash?
Click to expand...

A lil bit mish mash :)
A few things you've said have been spoken about and moved passed to :)
Oshkii made good points about line breeding etc


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reen8, there are pure line breeders in every state but you have to find them, gather references about them and their animals and ultimately, you have to trust them. Unlike in the cats and dogs world, the reptile hobby hasn't got any register or overseeing body that would certify pure line breeders as such. How can a breeder prove his/her lines are pure? Only by accurate and truthful records and pedigrees. When I got my greens DNA profiled (13 years ago) and started issuing certificates with each snake I passed on, people laughed at me, the more arrogant pricks said it's all marketing strategy, etc.. Guess what - my Aussie native GTPs can be imported into NSW today because of my initial efforts. The parody is - I am not breeding or selling any now. :)
 
Waterrat said:
reen8, there are pure line breeders in every state but you have to find them, gather references about them and their animals and ultimately, you have to trust them. Unlike in the cats and dogs world, the reptile hobby hasn't got any register or overseeing body that would certify pure line breeders as such. How can a breeder prove his/her lines are pure? Only by accurate and truthful records and pedigrees. When I got my greens DNA profiled (13 years ago) and started issuing certificates with each snake I passed on, people laughed at me, the more arrogant pricks said it's all marketing strategy, etc.. Guess what - my Aussie native GTPs can be imported into NSW today because of my initial efforts. The parody is - I am not breeding or selling any now. :)
Click to expand...

Lol to all the idiots out there and that sucks for us [emoji27][emoji27][emoji27][emoji27]


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Well didn't that one get well off track. Maybe snapped is correct and it was my post that sent it off the rails.
I personally see nothing wrong with my comment....am I missing something?
 
Pauls_Pythons said:
Well didn't that one get well off track. Maybe snapped is correct and it was my post that sent it off the rails.
I personally see nothing wrong with my comment....am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Nah, your post didn't, I was just replying to another poster that reen08 probably posted in reply to one of your comments. No one's fault, some topics do go off the rails, everyone has different opinions, and some rub people up the wrong way, so there's bound to be some noses out of joint from time to time.
 
Snapped said:
Nah, your post didn't, I was just replying to another poster that reen08 probably posted in reply to one of your comments. No one's fault, some topics do go off the rails, everyone has different opinions, and some rub people up the wrong way, so there's bound to be some noses out of joint from time to time.
Click to expand...

Yea, I still feel like we got a decent convo out of this to haha


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