Pygmy stimson's python

[slacker]

If you are selling something as a locale specific, than it should come from that area.

+1. Looks like I'll be calling the ones I have from this line "QLD Pygmy stimsoni" since Andy now seems to be implying that they're neither from Mossman nor from Mt Carbine.

Nice animals. Has anyone got pics of them when they are older. Would be good to see the pattern.

Look on the first page of the thread. No-two posted a juvenile up the top, further down ANTARESIA1 has posted a photo of a couple of adults.

 

[rodney]

Andy has implied no such thing. he has said the same from the start. He is sticking to what he has been told until someone proves other wise, which I dont think has happened. All very well for someone to say they have done their homework but when I went to school you had to show your homework not just say you have done it.

 

[slacker]

Andy has implied no such thing. he has said the same from the start. He is sticking to what he has been told until someone proves other wise, which I dont think has happened.

Sorry mate, but I think he did. Here you go, I've even quoted his previous post and edited out the irrelevant parts.

.......
my friend knows the excact spot . and mossman he felt is close enough .
.......
i can assure you all my line is found within a reasonable distance from mossman . in our opinion ... just as close to mossman as mount carbine so i guess he has picked the name over mount carbine .

Seems to me he's saying that Mossman is as close to their true locality is Mt Carbine is. Given that they [Mossman & Mt Carbine] are about 25km from each other [as the crow flies] my fantasmical powers of deduction suggest to me that they are of neither Mossman, nor Mt Carbine locality. Am I wrong?

 

[rodney]

You would make a good political reporter when you put it in context he was trying to make a point. The two places are very close together. Broome stimos are found a little further than 30km from Broome, Proserpine's are found further than 30km from town. Gosford gold and the list goes on. Locale specific works well doesn't it.

 

[Bushfire]

I think its very important that the true locality of these snakes is known, and thank bob and others for their input into their true locality. How close does it have to be from a locality to warrent the name? I think peoples answer to this change depending of the species, how unusual this particular form is, and proxity to other locations. Given that this form is particularly unusual and proxity to a few towns keeping its location true is very important both to general keepers and for scientist. This is the danger with all locale specific animals now, as a breeder I could make up a locality name in the pretext of trying to protect unusual forms from poaching or protecting my bottom line. A similar case was played out with the Mary River Turtle and its true location but instead of protecting it in the wild, it was a case of protecting profits. Look at how long it took to nail down its true location and worse still imagine if John had of kept it his little secert.

As a buyer I normally only take its locality name with a grain of salt, but I think its important to at least investigate the possiblity the locale data is wrong or to the point of being very misleading. Especially when very experienced field herpers say that location is misleading and given very vaild points to why Mossman isnt its true locality.

So do you stick with the sellers view or change it? Thats the difficult question there. There is good and bad points for both sides of this question. I would suggest that sometimes it isnt the best choice in blindly following the sellers information. Although this point is to the extreme I remember a thread awhile ago where a pet shop in vic was seller V.storri as ackies and stated thats what they were sold to as so that what they are selling them as.

 

[slacker]

Broome stimos are found a little further than 30km from Broome, Proserpine's are found further than 30km from town. Gosford gold and the list goes on. Locale specific works well doesn't it.

Well then maybe they should not be called "Broome stimos" etc.

Let's look at that line of Windorah locality stimsoni that are going around at the moment. Some people call them South-west Queensland stimsoni. Other people call them Windorahs. Both are (to my knowledge) accurate, just one is more specific than the other. That's fine.

What's not fine in my opinion is tacking on some arbitrary locality name. Sure, that particularly line may well be locality specific. But what would happen if someone had a true Mossman (okay bad example, but let's ignore that fact) locality stimsoni that they then paired up with one of these close-enough-to-Mossman locality animals? Suddenly your offspring are not locality specific.

Now we can say that animal X is of Brisbane locality, or we can say they're Queensland locality, neither is wrong, they're both technically correct. But we can't call a Gladstone locality animal a Brisbane locality animal and not expect to make people unhappy.

End of the day, they didn't have to claim the apparently incorrect Mossman locality when they could simply have called them "North East Queensland" locality. Not as specific, but at least it's not a lie.

 

[rodney]

ok please explain, using your example. If we have a stimo from Mossman and on from Mt Carbine there 30km apart. If both animals are identical and their offspring are identical to both locales. Your saying there not locale specific.

 

[slacker]

ok please explain, using your example. If we have a stimo from Mossman and on from Mt Carbine there 30km apart. If both animals are identical and their offspring are identical to both locales. Your saying there not locale specific.

If you breed a Mossman locality animal with a Mt Carbine locality animal, how could the offspring be locality specific? They're of two different localities. It makes no difference if they look like a duck and walk like a duck, in this example, they're not ducks.

 

[orsm]

Pity that greed tends to be the driving force for some sellers. Sarcasm and direct attacks are really not necessary for effective argument.

 

[ad]

ok please explain, using your example. If we have a stimo from Mossman and on from Mt Carbine there 30km apart. If both animals are identical and their offspring are identical to both locales. Your saying there not locale specific.

hehe Rodney, they dont exist at Mossman mate, have you missed it entirely???????????

In broome the habitat doesnt change, same with Windorah etc,
You are talking a moon scape compared to dense rainforest, Mt Carbine v Mossman
Wow get on a plane mate, understand the animals you are talking about, at the moment you dont have a clue, but stand there and argue about it

 

[nathancl]

the problem is if you breed a antaresia from mossman with one of those pygmies you would be breeding a fairly large size blonde mac type antaresia with a small little stimsoni type antaresia if you go and find animals from both localities you would find they are very different from one another.

this thread has got to the point where its making me laugh

 

[rodney]

No I don't think I have missed it, I have been there I know how dramatically the country changes on top of the escarpment. That's not the argument you say it is impossible for a python that is different in most ways to other stimsons to live in different habitat . I haven't said they are difinetly from Mossman I am saying that know one has proved their not. I don't care how much of an expert you think you are because you say they aren't means nothing to me. Your whole argument seems to be no other stimson lives in this habitat so it doesn't happen, I was there in 1972 it's probably changed a bit but I remember how wild some of that country was you could have hid a herd of elephants in some of those gorges let alone a little snake. All i am saying is anything is possible even the fact that you maybe wrong. And Yes I accept that I maybe wrong too.

 

[scam7278]

just one question,as i know bugger all about stimmies....the fact that these pygmy stimms are so diffrent to others in size,is it possible tha they might come from a diffrent climate to normal stimms?

 

[bigguy]

Hobo, no they live in normal stimson habitat, and not surrounded by monster spotted pythons on the coast.

I can't understand what you are all argueing about. The collector of these animals has confirmed where they were caught, AND IT WAS NOT MOSSMAN for the last time for all those people who can not read. Did I prove it . YES I DID. Andy has only to ring me for the collectors details which I will gladly give him. And than Andy can confirm my facts were correct and let you all know once and for all. But so far no phone call which leads me to believe he would rather sell great animals with misleading imfo. His choice .

This is the last post I will make on this subject. People who have probably never done any field research are so quick to give opinions.