Raising beardies without UV?

[Miss B]

I'm just curious. I've heard quite a few people say that they don't use artificial UV lights on their beardies. How do people manage this?

I'm not wanting to attempt it myself, but I'm just wondering how people do it. Do they give their dragons regular exposure to natural sunlight in place of artificial UV (and if so, how much?).

I just find it weird that some people can apparently raise beardies with no UV, and yet others are reporting bone density problems and MBD in really young hatchlings.

Anyone got any insight?

 

[Aslan]

Miss B - I have no doubt it is possible, and have heard many people claim to have done this for numerous generations without apparent problems...

...I believe it comes down to a balanced diet with balanced supplementation...

...I, personally, don't have that much faith in my ability to be so precise and as such happily use UV and just dust away to my hearts contents...

 

[GraftonChic]

I use a Uv tube and take my babies and older adults outside for some sun. Im not sure on the quality of the tube, but use Vitamins and calcium and ensure they always go out.

 

[dragon lady]

Because of my health....mine are mostly inside.....which bugs me,ide love to see their colours naturally!....

Sun....... they need no less than 4 hrs per day as adults ,....babies need 6hrs minimum of full sun to strengthen their bones.....

JasonL could probably correct me on this.....he transfers his from inside to out,going by his past comments
dont know if he uses lighting ..but do know he doesnt use supplements!

 

[JasonL]

I raised dozens of dragons for five years without any UV or supplements, this year I have switched to full UV, both lighting and natural sunlight when weather permits to see any changes in health and behaviour. Early days yet, but the only real differences so far are the eye problems I am having with quite a few lizards, I had never experienced any eye problems previously.

 

[dragon lady]

Hope you didnt mind me mentioning you JasonL..... you seem to know the science of things that i dont!
What eye problems.....would it be related to U.V or the extreme weather conditions we are experiencing... or do you run air conditioning in the rooms where your tanks are?

How many hours do you recommend per day with no lighting ?

 

[Miss B]

So what's the trick then? Something special with their diet?

What I'm getting at, is how can some people raise beardies with no UV and have no problems, meanwhile other people are reporting MBD and bone related problems...?

 

[nuthn2do]

I raised dozens of dragons for five years without any UV or supplements, this year I have switched to full UV, both lighting and natural sunlight when weather permits to see any changes in health and behaviour. Early days yet, but the only real differences so far are the eye problems I am having with quite a few lizards, I had never experienced any eye problems previously.

What problems and what lights are you using? Seems strange that a diurnal animal would have sunlight related eye problems.

 

[dailyskin]

So would it be fine to give an adult 4 hours of natural outdoor sunlight most days, and on any days this wasn't possible, just use UV? So use a combination of natural, and UV light as a back-up?

Because I think that most days, particularly in summer, I would find it easy to have it outside?

 

[CodeRed]

I raised dozens of dragons for five years without any UV or supplements, this year I have switched to full UV, both lighting and natural sunlight when weather permits to see any changes in health and behaviour. Early days yet, but the only real differences so far are the eye problems I am having with quite a few lizards, I had never experienced any eye problems previously.

What brand of UV lights have you been using?

 

[NinaPeas]

I wouldn't recommend it at all, after all, wild beardies get lots of sun. Also when I was much younger I had 2 beardies with no UV, and they developed such terrible ricketts, we had to have them both put down (

 

[slacker]

This is very interesting.

I remember reading some years ago (and things may have changed since then) that the use of these tubes was equivalent to 30mins natural daylight per week. Since then, I've always wondered if there really is any benefit provided by them.

After reading recently of the abysmal calcium levels in many commonly used prey items, I've also wondered if MBD was a result of an inadequate diet more than a lack of artificial (or natural) UV. In their natural habitat, the animals probably receive a greater variation in diet than is provided by most keepers, some of which may provide necessary levels of calcium / d3, but that's pure speculation, of course.

Can I ask what you have been feeding those which were not provided with supplements and UV, JasonL?

Please note that I am not encouraging people to throw away their UV tubes and I cannot even quote the exact source where I read the above referring to the effectiveness of UV tubes (but it was on the internet, so it must be true!). I'm very new to keeping lizards and the only ones I currently have are provided with artificial UV.

 

[Chris1]

because my big girls wont stay in tehir tank they dont have artificial UV but spend pretty much full days in the sun on weekends when the weathers nice.

theyve been like that for over 2 years with no probs.

the babies have a good UV light though and will till theyre fully grown and join the big girls as house dragons.

 

[Craig2]

1 hour of natural sunlight is better than 12 hours under a fluro uv light some people dont have time to take them outside every day or 2 but if you do you would be better of taking them outside for a few hours and loose the uv tube YOU CANT BEAT THE REAL THING

 

[wakd]

I actually lost a juvie pygmy bearded and a juvie netted due to having too strong a UV light. I can't think of the brand name, but it is a reptile specific light with a +10 "desert" UV rating. We got the netted as our first lizard and after a week or so he became sluggish and seemed to be sleeping all the time. He stopped eating,and despite our best efforts (syringe feeding), died. After searching around everywhere on the net, we couldn''t work out the problem, and figured he must have just been a weak/sickly individual. We then got a pair of juvie pygmy dragons, and the same thing started to happen - eyes closed all the time, stopped eating (the UV was on a regular day/night cycle by the way). At this point we realised it must have been the UV tube we were using. Unfortunately we lost one of the pygmy dragons, but the other girl is fine now (this was about a year ago). We now use the +5 UV tube. Thought I should mention this, as Jason's mention of eye problems above is the first time I have read on the net of anyone else having this issue - and believe me, I searched extensively to try and find any info about this issue. We spoke to the breeder a while after and found that he had the same issue with the +10 lights. No where on the net have I ever read that TOO MUCH UV can be a problem, so I thought I should post this as a warning for others...

 

[JasonL]

Hope you didnt mind me mentioning you JasonL..... you seem to know the science of things that i dont!
What eye problems.....would it be related to U.V or the extreme weather conditions we are experiencing... or do you run air conditioning in the rooms where your tanks are?

How many hours do you recommend per day with no lighting ?

I am 100% convinced all they eye problems are from the man made UV, I used a 10% compac and a Mercury vapor in another tank, I had lizards in both tanks suffer mild to serious eye problems.

 

[JasonL]

So what's the trick then? Something special with their diet?

What I'm getting at, is how can some people raise beardies with no UV and have no problems, meanwhile other people are reporting MBD and bone related problems...?

Heat, metabolism rate, stress and diet play a huge part in calcium levels. Usually hatchlings only have problems if they are A; under fed, as most new keepers vastly underestimate the amount of food dragons eat. B: Stressed or Cooled; incorrect enclosure set-ups or over crowded enclosures (2 dragons may be overcrowded) will cause the dragons the lower or stop eating, or with adults C: Over bred; Males are too buisy to eat as much as they should if in sight and smell of females and females will die if over clutched, real sunlight or not.

 

[JasonL]

This is very interesting.

Can I ask what you have been feeding those which were not provided with supplements and UV, JasonL?


Crickets and woodies, the odd moth ect.

 

[JasonL]

I don't necessarily think the 10% bulbs put out too much UV, I just think there is more to UV rays than man can reproduce in a 50 buck bulb.

 

[Chimera]

I am 100% convinced all they eye problems are from the man made UV, I used a 10% compac and a Mercury vapor in another tank, I had lizards in both tanks suffer mild to serious eye problems.

What distance were the lights from the basking sites? There has been a bit of buzz around the Compacts (particularly 10s) and eye issues caused by UV. It seems that Zoomed are recommending that a minimum distance to the basking site (depending on lighting configuration and burn in) of 20 to 60cm depending on whether a reflector or mesh cover is used.