reptile sale slump???

[cwtiger]

Very interesting thread. I have been reading and searching for the right hatchlings to purchase. I have looked at different breeds and yes they are lovely but all I am looking for is a couple of children's pythons. They will be my first snakes as pets. I have worked with snakes and cared for many a reptile with National Parks and Wildlife. But gave up due to single mother hood. I have the click clap containers with the air holes ready. I have the rats here also. I now have to save up the $300 to purchase these babies. And find a breeder who will committ to a time and let you come to them to view the snake.

 

[Waterrat]

Cheap website and a silver tongue is all you need to swindle people with reptile sales.
Just tell prospective buyers your letting them in early on a yet to be proven morph and
you will sell out at top price - Brown hypos and brown reds are where its at people (newbs).

Good enough marketing?

There has been a good deal of blame put on the sellers but what about the buyers?
You would have to have rocks in the head to fall for such bull.... like unproven morphs or the weird and wonderful names some breeders created to sell their pretty ordinary animals. As long as there are silly people with money to throw around, there will be unscrupulous breeders and sellers. Why do newbies want to buy morphs or high-end animals? I think we all know the answer - to make impression: "I want to have something that my mates don't have, if nobody has it, even better". Alteranively, there is the collector's mentality: "have to have everything". The crooks will gladly take you money. It's not only in this hobby, many businesses thrive on gullible people.

 

[ozziepythons]

Sorry if its been said already but I won't be reading the volumes of posts on this thread....I think the evident slump in reptile sales is due to a glut in the market. More reptiles are available than there are keepers interested in buying due to the explosion in breeding success from everyday keepers. For example, quality pythons going for far less than they used to are even being passed by. Coastals, Darwins, Murray Darlings, Childrens and Spotteds for example are plummeting in price as keepers are desperate to just move on hatchlings. People asking 'old school' prices for their animals end up stuck with them very often unless they get lucky. I've even seen womas going for $250 for hatchlings, and $400 for adults. Those asking double or triple these prices (old school) are often stuck with them as many people won't pay that much when they've seen them available for far less.

 

[Waterrat]

So, the general mentality is - the cheaper the better? I would really like to see the quality of these "discounted" animals like the $250.- womas. I don't think I would be buying one.

 

[CodeRed]

So, the general mentality is - the cheaper the better? I would really like to see the quality of these "discounted" animals like the $250.- womas. I don't think I would be buying one.

They are the same lines that were selling for $2000 each only 3 years ago so I dont see why you have the perception they are bad. In reality the quality hasnt dropped, but has gone up due to selective breeding. So you'd be getting a better animal at 1/8th the price.

 

[Kitah]

If it comes to a long-term pet, and a few hundred dollars difference, I'm going to get an animal I like, personally i.e a yearling may be advertised as a 'black and gold' for $250 but look nothing like one/not have clean markings etc, vs. one that costs say $400 that (in my eyes) is stunning, and appeals to me- I'll buy the $400 one!

If, however, two very similar looking animals appear on the market that I like just as much as each other, I'd probably go for the cheaper one. Though, having said this, it would also depend on the seller- if its someone I've heard a lot about, like their other animals, know they actually take good care of them etc- I'll buy off them.

 

[cris]

Reptiles breed at an exponential rate, there was recently a massive increase in keepers due to an increase in public awareness but the increase in new keepers seems to have slowed to a more normal level. Prices of commonly available reptiles should be expected to drop at an exponential rate unless quality improves or there is an increase in the increase of keepers.

I think its great and anyone who didnt see it coming is a bit slow. It will hopefully eliminate those breeding rubbish for profit and also increase quality of common species and also the numbers of the rarer species or those that are hard to breed.

Personally i used to think of breeding reptiles as an unwanted hassle and tried to avoid any breeding, but now i would keep doing it even if i cant sell all the offspring. Then again i have a fair few goannas

Cheap website and a silver tongue is all you need to swindle people with reptile sales.
Just tell prospective buyers your letting them in early on a yet to be proven morph and
you will sell out at top price - Brown hypos and brown reds are where its at people (newbs).

Good enough marketing?

Not bad, you could also spray them with food dye to make new colour phases too :lol:

 

[zulu]

re reptile

Sorry if its been said already but I won't be reading the volumes of posts on this thread....I think the evident slump in reptile sales is due to a glut in the market. More reptiles are available than there are keepers interested in buying due to the explosion in breeding success from everyday keepers. For example, quality pythons going for far less than they used to are even being passed by. Coastals, Darwins, Murray Darlings, Childrens and Spotteds for example are plummeting in price as keepers are desperate to just move on hatchlings. People asking 'old school' prices for their animals end up stuck with them very often unless they get lucky. I've even seen womas going for $250 for hatchlings, and $400 for adults. Those asking double or triple these prices (old school) are often stuck with them as many people won't pay that much when they've seen them available for far less.

Definetly an oversupply in the python market for sure,too many in the breeding business,same with the expos,websites and reptile publications that will end in buyouts and compromises to remain solvent in the years ahead.

 

[ozziepythons]

By quality I meant specimens line bred, true to locality and exhibiting the standard morphological characteristics for that locale. For example womas, which are more often than not clearly identified by colouration and pattern. When true to locality like Uluru or SA, and one person asks $800 for a hatchie and another $450, and both specimens are healthy, who will be paying top dollar? Its not about grabbing a cheap snake, its is about getting better value for money with the reptile market in its current situation.

 

[Twin_Rivers]

So, the general mentality is - the cheaper the better? I would really like to see the quality of these "discounted" animals like the $250.- womas. I don't think I would be buying one.

I see it daily, many people have a cheaper the better attitude towards most products. Often my customers will buy the cheapest product we have available with little regard to the quality.
I personally am prepared to pay a little extra and get a better quality, better looked after animal / product. We buy most of our animals off a local breeder we trust who always the time to go through his animals with us.

 

[ando68]

I have been trying to find a sw carpet python here in WA ,found some in a pet city store yearlings $1000 each (cross that store of the list). After finding a breeder i got a price of 770 for yearling and 640 for a 3month old hatchling, there is nothing cheap in perth WA :cry:

 

[CodeRed]

I have been trying to find a sw carpet python here in WA ,found some in a pet city store yearlings $1000 each (cross that store of the list). After finding a breeder i got a price of 770 for yearling and 640 for a 3month old hatchling, there is nothing cheap in perth WA :cry:

The joys of a closed economy

 

[ozziepythons]

They are the same lines that were selling for $2000 each only 3 years ago so I dont see why you have the perception they are bad. In reality the quality hasnt dropped, but has gone up due to selective breeding. So you'd be getting a better animal at 1/8th the price.

Exactly my point, keepers with quality animals are now just wanting some return for there effort so willing to ask far less for there specimens. When advertised next to someone who wants old school prices for their specimens, they are far more likely to sell than the person still asking hundreds of dollars more for the same thing.

 

[zulu]

re reptiles

The joys of a closed economy

Bit of a joke hey codered,dam they know how to cash up on royalties and stuff in WA,poor old DEC in NSW had them over years back showing them how its all done with Jeff Hardy etc.
They learnt too good which shows that rats are quick learners,why DEC in NSW dont sell dealers licenses now god onley knows,at least it would bring revenue to NSW as we need it badly.

 

[pythonmum]

I personally am prepared to pay a little extra and get a better quality, better looked after animal / product. We buy most of our animals off a local breeder we trust who always the time to go through his animals with us.

We are just getting ready to spend heaps of money on our rottie who has massive orthopaedic problems. Pythons don't have the same health issues as purebred dogs - yet. (I'm not counting jags and their neurological issues, as these are not officially in Australia.) Breeders need to keep their stock healthy and look after genetic diversity. Pairs from the same clutch are not ideal to use as breeders. It's hard to balance the inbreeding/line breeding required to fix desirable genetic traits and the diversity required for a healthy individual, but it should be a consideration in all pairings. If poor quality animals start flooding the market, it damages everyone.

 

[hashbean]

We are just getting ready to spend heaps of money on our rottie who has massive orthopaedic problems. Pythons don't have the same health issues as purebred dogs - yet. (I'm not counting jags and their neurological issues, as these are not officially in Australia.) Breeders need to keep their stock healthy and look after genetic diversity. Pairs from the same clutch are not ideal to use as breeders. It's hard to balance the inbreeding/line breeding required to fix desirable genetic traits and the diversity required for a healthy individual, but it should be a consideration in all pairings. If poor quality animals start flooding the market, it damages everyone.

please point me to the facts regarding the problems with same clutch breeding ?

 

[feathers]

As a reasonably new keeper of lizards, i find it interesting that some of you are not taking into account the fact that the oldies are obviously doing a good job of passing on knowledge, advice and support. 2 years ago I did not have the confidence to attempt to keep and breed some beautiful animals, yet a few of the experienced keepers gave freely of their valuable time and knowledge and helped me enormously to be able to set up and successfully breed. If this does not occur the hobby stagnates, yet with more like me able to do this the hobby has more animals available. surely if more like me are able to grow with the hobby, more animals means less asking price for them - just like the plasma TVs. Markets will always wax & wane but those in the hobby for the love of the animals will continue. All we really need to do is meet our feeding costs surely because we are in the hobby for love. If you want to be a business, then adopt a business name, ABN and tell the tax man how much you are making, then lobby the government to keep the hobbyists out of the selling market just like many other animal areas do. I think it is great that prices vary, it shows that good old competition is at work!

 

[ShadowDragon]

Cheap website and a silver tongue is all you need to swindle people with reptile sales.
Just tell prospective buyers your letting them in early on a yet to be proven morph and
you will sell out at top price - Brown hypos and brown reds are where its at people (newbs).

Good enough marketing?

Pretty much spot on Mr Australis.

A lot of "newbies" see the "trick" tags on animals and think that they are getting something exceptional, and if that seller has a flashy website then they think the seller must be "a respected" or "reputable" breeder, yet those who have been around a while know a bit about these "elite breeders" know to avoid them like the plague. It is a shame that money hungry grubs are happy to rip off people new to the hobby. I think that a lot of newbies that learn that they have been had quickly lose interest in the hobby, which is understandable.

If you sell good looking , healthy animals at reasonable prices without the bs name tags you will move your hatchies.

If you are having troubles selling heaps of animals, maybe give your animals a rest for a couple of seasons and forget about the dollar signs.

 

[ozziepythons]

If you sell good looking , healthy animals at reasonable prices without the bs name tags you will move your hatchies.[/I]


Not necessarily the case, hence this thread. You may move a few, and get tyre kickers asking many questions and for an album of pics of specimens for sale, but quality specimens going for cheap is often failing to make sales. Just check out the relevent internet sites selling reptiles, says it all. God help reptile shops asking inflated prices for their animals, they just end up as display specimens rather than being sold!

 

[Waterrat]

Such strong opinions and detailed marketing analysis.
Smart people know what to buy and where to find it, silly people don't, whether they're newbies or old crocs. The hype is over, the slump will be over in time, the hobby and the reptile business will go on no matter what. "Don't worry , be happy".