Tank Help-pts

[Iguana]

hey everyone,
Going to be getting a pink tongue skink very soon hopefully, I'm starting to look at all the bits I need for the tank.
I was wondering if I could an opinion on a couple of things;
-I'm leaning towards getting a glass enclosure, purely because I am considering putting live plants inside. I know there's gonna be heat and humidity issues, I'm planning on putting either a towel or tinfoil over the top to keep in heat/humidity, with a glass enclosure, for lighting should I sit a dome/box on top? or let the light hang through the mesh?
-Heating, I'm not sure what kind of heating to use, I'd like to try out heat cord, but I'm suspecting the PTS would be out and about much more if I had a 'Basking' spot. If I do have a basking spot, any bulb recommendations? Everyone's been talking about the 'spot lights' from Bunnings
-Heat at night, is there any needed? I'm in Victoria so it can get pretty cold during the night, especially in winter, house temp at night is around 16-20 degrees.
-if anyone has any experience with live plants in tanks, do you have any tips or recommended substrate?
Thanks,

 

[pinefamily]

Stompsy is the person you need to answer this; she has several PTS.
Regarding light,if it is only light, on top is fine. If it is UV, it needs to be inside the tank; mesh reduces the effectiveness of the UV. And if you are going with a basking spot, yes the Philips spot globes from Bunnings are the go. Do exactly the same job as the "reptile" globes, for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Iguana]

Stompsy is the person you need to answer this; she has several PTS.
Regarding light,if it is only light, on top is fine. If it is UV, it needs to be inside the tank; mesh reduces the effectiveness of the UV. And if you are going with a basking spot, yes the Philips spot globes from Bunnings are the go. Do exactly the same job as the "reptile" globes, for a fraction of the cost.

Thanks
Yeah true, if she doesn't have a look at this thread i'll PM her, just wanted to gather a couple of opinions.
Thought so, makes sense, haven't decided if i'll use UV yet, but i'll be sure to fix it inside.
I'll try those out, would save me a small fortune on globes I suppose, gotta love the specialty 'reptile' item price increase, i'll check them out on the weekend.

 

[Stompsy]

Hi Iguana!

I keep my PTS in a glass terrarium, however, as I am also in Victoria, I have the sides and the back covered in foam to retain a little heat.

I use the 75w Phillips globes from Bunnings, but must say, I have the basking spot up quite high to reach the required temps of 30 - 34 degrees. I use one of those little corner hammocks to reach that height. I decided not to use UV, but may do if I ever upgrade the enclosure... but there has been no adverse effects by not using it.

My globe sits in a dome fitting on top of the mesh lid.. I had a new piece of mesh cut when I was putting the enclosure together as I bought it secondhand and the lid was in terrible shape. I believe less light and heat come through because of that also.

In addition to the light, I did have a heat cord underneath the enclosure to begin with, but found it got far too hot.

They also love climbing, so I have some big logs to give climbing space and access to the hammock also. And plan to add some thick vines in the future.

I also use Euci Mulch from Bunnings as substrate as they love to burrow and I spray the enclosure 2 or 3 times a week to try to create a little humidity.

Also, on a side note... mine will only eat snails and slugs. I have tried lots of other foods including dog/cat food and banana but he will just not have it. So, as such, I now have a small colony of snails in a plastic tank to keep him happy. I collect them from the garden, quarantine them for a week or so to make sure they have not been poisoned and then they are good to go as food. I've spoken to several people about his refusal to eat anything else and have had mixed reactions... some will eat anything you put in front of them, others, like mine will only eat snails. So, good luck with that!

If I've missed anything or you have specific questions, then feel free to ask and I'll try my best to answer them. But basically, I followed care sheets for Blue Tongues, with warmer temps, climbing space and a little more humidity.

I can also post pictures of my enclosure if you'd like.

 

[Iguana]

Thank You Stompsy for the detailed answer! You've pretty much cleared almost everything up for me, If you are able to post pictures of your enclosure's I would be very grateful

I'll definitely get onto those spot globes and a dome, by the sounds of it they do a pretty good job. I was suspecting there would be no need for UV, being nocturnal and all, do you use supplements at all? I was thinking a calcium+D3 powder to coat the food?
I won't worry with a heat cord then, I'm planning on sitting it on top of another enclosure after quarantine, so they should provide some heat.
I was planning on getting a hammock too, they look pretty cool. Do you have any hides or just the spaces between the logs and such for them to hide?
Thanks for the tip about the mulch, I'll defiantly be getting some, how thick do you have it? Is 2 inches okay or too much?
I'm hoping mine with take a variety of foods, but if it doesn't i'll start breeding snails, there aren't too many where I live, people love snail bait. With the snails, do you worry about parasites? I was warned about collecting wild snails because of not only poison, but the parasites they can harbor too. Do you kill them before you give them to the PTS? Also do you give them shell and all? I know ZooMed make canned snails, but they don't have the shell, I was wondering if that mattered at all.
Last question of many, but do you provide heat at all during the night? Both in summer and winter?

Thanks again for the answer, sorry about the barrage of questions lol

 

[Stompsy]

No Problem! Was a massive learning curve for me because there is very few care sheets available.

- I currently don't use any supplements but they certainly wouldn't hurt!
- The logs provide lots of hiding spaces but I also have a cave hide and a small hollowed out log for extra hidey holes. I also have a fake fern which also provides cover.
- The Mulch is awesome! Cheap and a large bag covers at least two enclosures for ages. And yes, 2 inches thick should be fine... relative to the size of the lizard of course.
- Snail parasites are like something out of a horror film! I collected a slug from my garden and he was crawling with them. And I've read a lot of stuff about them but none of it implied that the parasites could be passed onto reptiles, so I'm not too worried.

My snails get a bath/shower once a week (a trick I learned from reading about keeping African land snails as pets) and their enclosure gets a wash down at the same time. I feed with shells on and he just breaks the shell and eats the gooey goodness inside. I have thought about freezing the snails and just defrosting them as I go... but it's honestly easier this way.

Someone else on here also suggested planting a particular plant in the garden which snails adore. This attracts them and you can just pick off what you need and leave the rest be.

Also, those tinned snails are completely over priced and don't keep well, so think about it before buying.

- In winter I was supplying ambient heat throughout the entire room instead of having a heat source in the enclosure and that seemed to work fine. Now, I just use the day globe and will most likely decrease the amount of time it is on when the hotter days arrive. (If they ever do!)

And that's all good . I had heaps of trouble getting answers to PTS question when I was setting everything up, so I'm more than happy to help.

 

[baker]

Enclosure wise a glass enclosure is fine. As Stompsy said you can just insulate the sides with foam to assist in heat retention.

For heating I utilise GU10 fittings with 35 watt globes, not just for my pink tongues but any other skink or animal I have that I heat via lights. The major advantage I have found with using GU10 for heating is that the globes are very directional with where the heat is produced so you can aim where you want your basking spot easily. They are also a lot cheaper to run than the larger globes.

I have my heat light just sitting on top and pointing through the mesh cage aiming at a point where two branches over lap to create the basking spot. My basking spot at the branches varies between 36-40 degrees. Some might see this as to high, but I rather providing a hot basking spot that allows the animal to heat up quickly. This I feel, mimics nature better, and allows nervous animals to quickly reach optimal temperature and then hide again. How the lamp is set up along with the globe as created a vertical thermal gradient in just the area under the lamp. This allows the lizards to effectively regulate and escape the heat when needed (which can be important in Qld).

Substrate wise I've used coco peat, mulched timber and then mixtures of the two with sand and other material. All work extremely well and just depends what I have available to use at the time of substrate changes. For live plant set ups you are generally best off having some pebbles mixed with some activated charcoal across the base of the enclosure for drainage. Then place soil mixtures across the top for your plants to be placed in. I've tried live plants a couple times with varied success. Hoping soon to be able to actually redo the pink tongue enclosure fully and utilise live plants, so I shall let you know what I end up using and how I do it when I get around to it. I spray them down every so often but I haven't found humidity to be to much of a problem here in Qld. I don't supply heat to anything of a night. During winter time I reduce the amount of heating time but maintain the same temperature basking spot.

Feeding wise I use that My dog chicken supreme food mainly and then dust that every so often. For some reason skinks seem to go crazy over that chicken supreme food, with all the species I own just eating it immediately. When I can I try to vary the diet up with snails, small pieces of veges and pinkie mice. I tried feeding a hopper mouse to my male the other day, if I hadn't just feed him the dog food and chopped the mouse up he would've made short work of it. I've tried that Respasy food but haven't had luck with them eating it yet. Going to try mixing some of the dog food through to get them interested.

Furnishing wise they are pretty easy. Give them branches and climbing opportunities and then plenty of hides and cover to feel secure and they are happy. I've attached a photo of my males enclosure to give you an idea with it. In this enclosure he can disappear under that layer of fake plant with multiple different hides available beneath that. I find his most active at night and will spend most of it climbing up and down the branches and back wall. During the day though he can not be seen, and that seems to be how he likes it.

For more information care wise for pink tongues I would recommend you look into getting "Keeping and breeding Australian lizards" edited by Mike Swan and "A guide to keeping Australian skinks in captivity" by Dr Danny Brown. Both are excellent books and have great information for keeping these lizards.

Cheers, Cameron

 

[sp.michael]

In regards to heating, I believe you'd only really need the one basking site, as long as its reaching the mid 30's during the day. Night time temps shouldn't be too much of an issue with Pink tongues naturally being found in areas like the blue mountains, which can get quite cold of a night. Also with live plants, you'd have to watch out for them burrowing down and digging up the roots so it would probably be best to have the plants in pots. Alternatively, if you wanted to have the plants planted in the tank, you could run some tubing around to create little burrow hides for them to hopefully save the plants. As previously said, provide them with as many hides as possible and with food, they love their snails, but personally I'd only feed captive snails as i've had a Pink tongue die from snail parasites, confirmed from a vets autopsy.

 

[eipper]

We keep our pink tongues outside

Dimensions are 1500hx 600 d x 1300 l

It's planted without artificial heat sources.

No cleaning required.

Cage is sprayed with the hose once a week in autumn/ spring twice in summer depending on storms.

Cheers
Scott

 

[Stompsy]

In regards to heating, I believe you'd only really need the one basking site, as long as its reaching the mid 30's during the day. Night time temps shouldn't be too much of an issue with Pink tongues naturally being found in areas like the blue mountains, which can get quite cold of a night. Also with live plants, you'd have to watch out for them burrowing down and digging up the roots so it would probably be best to have the plants in pots. Alternatively, if you wanted to have the plants planted in the tank, you could run some tubing around to create little burrow hides for them to hopefully save the plants. As previously said, provide them with as many hides as possible and with food, they love their snails, but personally I'd only feed captive snails as i've had a Pink tongue die from snail parasites, confirmed from a vets autopsy.

Ugh, I posted a thread a while back asking for information on snail mites and whether they could harm my reptile and got a unanimous 'no' they can't.

Now I'm second guessing the snails I've collected from the garden!

 

[sp.michael]

If you're in a pretty rural area it should be fine. Just one morning I had a skink that developed what appeared to be neurological problems, unable to walk, curling around and biting itself, etc and took it to a reptile vet who later did an autopsy and found it was a parasite from the snails in it's brain. Im not sure what the actual parasite was, but Angiostrongylus cantonensis has been found in Australian snails and caused meningitis in humans, so possible similar effects on reptiles, but also skinks in particular have been found to be particularly susceptible to Toxoplasmosis; http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1550-7408.1969.tb02239.x/full. If you can i'd recommend starting a breeding group of snails just for safety purposes.

 

[Stompsy]

Thanks for the info. I'm really bloody worried now! I'm collecting the snails from and area on the outskirts of what you'd class as Melbourne, so unsure if they'd be effected. But none of the ones I've collected seem to have mites.

 

[sp.michael]

Sorry to worry you, could have just been a freak incident for me, but since then have moved to farmed snails and haven't had a problem over the past few years, although the supply can be a bit iffy now and then. Also being in a pretty highly residential area probably didn't help. Either way I wouldn't want to be deny them snails at all, they go nuts for them.

On another note, is the accepted name Cyclodomorphus or Hemisphaeriodon? I thought it was the former but this thread has it tagged as the latter.

 

[Iguana]

Thanks again Stompsy for another great answer, and the pictures I'm getting a lot of ideas for a setup, the second pic with the PTS just laying on the fern is so cute. Your enclosures look very natural and well thought out. I agree that there so little info on PTS care, I found about 3 or 4 decent care sheets, I'll take your tip and look at some BTS ones thanks!
-I think I may supplement just because no Uv, and as you said it cant hurt
-I love how you used all branches and logs to provide cover, and i'll probably just throw in a couple of extra hides and hollow logs as extra too.
-Mulch it is then, pretty cheap compared to most other 'reptile' substrates, very natural looking too
-After hearing sp.michael's story I may stick to farmed snails, just because i'm paranoid about parasites, I've heard so many stories about even young kids getting parasites off snails, just by putting them in their mouths and such. I believe basil is the plant that attracts them? I feed some to mine and they love it. Thanks for the tip about the cans, I won't waste the money, shell and all it is!
-I may have heat on for a couple hours in the morning or at night for winter, just because the house gets unbearably cold sometimes. I defiantly think the hotter days are coming, just wait until January that's when the 40 degree days come up!
I'm lucky I've got experienced PTS keepers to pester with questions, I can imagine having to find all this out on my own :O

 

[Iguana]

Thank you for a greatly detailed answer baker Another naturalistic looking enclosure, I can see what type of build I need to do.
-With the GU10 fittings do you find that the outside gets extremely hot at all? I'd think with a 35 watt it would have to be on all the time to produce the heat needed, even so 36-40 degrees is an impressive hotspot. I agree that a slightly hotter hotspot is better for as you said, heating up quickly, I'm aiming to get mine around 35 or so.
-Is the mix you use ideal for them to dig into? I'm just wondering if there is a benefit to making a substrate mix as opposed to straight out of the bag lol
-If you could keep us updated on your life plant progress that would be great thanks I'm pretty familiar with plant terrariums, I make them every so often, it sounds like the same method can be applied to a tank, but as guess as PTS like to dig as sp.michael said I'll look into pots instead, easier to replace when they get too big or die, I may convert to full planted enclosure, once I see someone with a successful one.
-No heat during the night sounds good to me, winter i'll do a couple of hours in the morning or night.
-A nice varied diet you've listed, I heard the pet food trick, it seems like almost no PTS or BTS can resist, I'll give what you've listed a go thanks, I'd like to use a varied die, with snails being the main staple.
-I'm aiming for my enclosure to look like yours and Stompy's, seems like there is a lot of cover and climbing spots, can't see anything through that layer of fake plants, I guess that is how he likes it though haha.
-Thanks for the book recs, I've been looking into Danny Brown's one for awhile, I'm hoping to get it soon, right now I have a 'keeping blue tongue skinks" on its way, as Stompsy said there's overlapping info.
Thanks again for the information, it's defiantly going to be useful when I start setting up the tank and get the PTS

 

[Iguana]

Thank you for the info sp.michael, I never thought about the fact they may dig up the plants before your post, I like your idea of using pots instead and I think ill opt for that instead, easier to care for if they get too large or ill. Planning on not using heat at night too, I'd imagine my house was at least warmer than the Blue mountains lol
Sorry to hear about your PTS, such a horrible accident, very unlucky compaired to the many others who feed wild caught and come off fine , I'm only using captive snails too, raising young ones now, hopefully they breed soon. Thanks for sharing that information about the parasites though.

 

[Iguana]

Thanks Eipper, Simple and straightforward I like it haha, unfortunately I don't have the space quite yet to install aviaries in my yard, so Indoors it is. Nice setup though, hoping to implement a similar thing in the future.

 

[baker]

The outside hood of the light fittings certainly do get quite hot, they aren't something you want to grab after they've been running for long periods. I run all my heat lights off timers so they are on for set periods during the day. Through summer my heat lights only run eight hours a day with them off through the middle of the day when its hottest. Honestly for a basking spot you want it to be a continuous area of high heat for the animal to thermo-regulate as it pleases. Using a high power globe that turns on and off frequently is going to really achieve this well, so a lower wattage globe that gets to the same temperatures and is constant is better in my view.
I wouldn't have a clue how good the mix I use is for them to dig in, I can't actually remember a time where mine have dug. Honestly its up to your preference with how it looks whether to do a mix or just go straight out of a big. Most people utilise mixes though when creating planted tanks to ensure their are enough nutrients for the plants to survive. Yep, planted enclosures are just like planted terrariums, you just need to choose hardy plants that will survive the animals walking over them all the time.

Cheers, Cameron

 

[Stompsy]

Posted this in the biting thread but thought it fit quite nicely in here too. He/she was not too pleased at having a picture taken.

 

[Iguana]

The outside hood of the light fittings certainly do get quite hot, they aren't something you want to grab after they've been running for long periods. I run all my heat lights off timers so they are on for set periods during the day. Through summer my heat lights only run eight hours a day with them off through the middle of the day when its hottest. Honestly for a basking spot you want it to be a continuous area of high heat for the animal to thermo-regulate as it pleases. Using a high power globe that turns on and off frequently is going to really achieve this well, so a lower wattage globe that gets to the same temperatures and is constant is better in my view.
I wouldn't have a clue how good the mix I use is for them to dig in, I can't actually remember a time where mine have dug. Honestly its up to your preference with how it looks whether to do a mix or just go straight out of a big. Most people utilise mixes though when creating planted tanks to ensure their are enough nutrients for the plants to survive. Yep, planted enclosures are just like planted terrariums, you just need to choose hardy plants that will survive the animals walking over them all the time.

Cheers, Cameron

Thanks for the reply,
Im planning on having mine on thermostats and timers, but i'll try what you do and turn them off on the summer evenings, as it does get quite hot down here too. With the globe, (someone may correct me if im wrong) but a light that turns on and off frequently is likely to burn out faster, a preference for a lower wattage bulb would prevent this, i'm guessing as it would stay on longer to get the temps up, opposed to a high wattage which would heat up faster then switch off.
It'll depend on the lizard I guess haha, either way i'll try a variety of mixes and substrates out, see which it prefers.
I've already got a few terrarium plants thriving so that's a good sign, but I don't think they are hardy enough to survive a daily trampling. I may just stick potted plants in there instead.