The 2010 Australian Herpetological Symposium, Cairns, Oct 1, 2, & 3

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Who says i dont know any herpetologists?!! There is a big difference between keeping one or two reptiles versus propagating them. How many of your herpetologist friends actually breed and sell their reptiles?

 

[Waterrat]

Bit off the subject, nonetheless, this is interesting subject.
As I see it, we have several distinct groups in this "reptile whatever". Pet owners, reptile keepers / breeders, herpetologists and gov. wildlife departments. The interactions and relationships are intriguing; the pet owners need the breeders to source their pets, the breeders need the herpetologists to access research results (facts!) and the herpetologists need the bureaucrats to get their research permits. It also goes the other way around; the bureaucrats don't need anybody because they know it all and think they'reare above all. Herpetologists need breeders to fill the gaps (e.g. data on reproductive biology of many species), and the breeders need the pet owners to offload their product. Somewhere between them are professional reptile keepers but they are only a handful of them and they're under the directions of their employers and their association; but many of them are also keepers / breeders in their own right.
If I was to rank the groups, I know where the bureaucrats would be.

 

[CodeRed]

Bit off the subject, nonetheless, this is interesting subject.
As I see it, we have several distinct groups in this "reptile whatever". Pet owners, reptile keepers / breeders, herpetologists and gov. wildlife departments. The interactions and relationships are intriguing; the pet owners need the breeders to source their pets, the breeders need the herpetologists to access research results (facts!) and the herpetologists need the bureaucrats to get their research permits. It also goes the other way around; the bureaucrats don't need anybody because they know it all and think they'reare above all. Herpetologists need breeders to fill the gaps (e.g. data on reproductive biology of many species), and the breeders need the pet owners to offload their product. Somewhere between them are professional reptile keepers but they are only a handful of them and they're under the directions of their employers and their association; but many of them are also keepers / breeders in their own right.
If I was to rank the groups, I know where the bureaucrats would be.

Michael, you forgot poachers, smugglers and thieves

 

[Waterrat]

lol True, but they prefer to remain anonymous, we should respect that!

 

[ihaveherps]

I couldn't help to notice that some people were uneasy about not knowing who organised the symposium - one person in particular (on another forum) seems really stresses about it, worrying that his cheque may have ended up in the wrong hands.

Lets look at it this way - if the Australian Museum, any university or business company announces they are staging a symposium or a conference, would you need to know the name of their CEO or the names of the people organising the event? I don't think so.

The Australian Herpetological Symposium PTY/LTD is a registered company - you can check here: ASIC Free Company Name Search ,so what's the big deal?

Relax, enjoy life and come along to the next year's gig.

Michael, you forgot poachers, smugglers and thieves

lol True, but they prefer to remain anonymous, we should respect that!

It may just be me... irony much? .... but I think you have summed it up well here fellas.... I would want to know, as I wont support shady characters in the hobby... not saying the entity behind this symposium is or isnt shady, though I would like to reserve my judgements and would have appreciated a more transparent system. I for one was slightly put off by after the organiser named, that they had it removed, as if they werent prepared to stand behind the product... even though they were prepared to comment in the thread from behind an internet handle. Maybe I am just old school, and believe that if you have a product you are selling, that an ethical person would have no qualms having their name attached to their business entity.

My 2 cents.... not knocking the Symposium itself, just understand the frustrations of some of the punters.

 

[Waterrat]

Ihaveherps, after a lifetime in the herp circles, I don't know too many participants that would qualify for the saint status, including some big names who are now in the forefront of herpetoculture, even in herpetology, not excluding myself. If we keep looking back and polarizing people by what we "have heard" about them (which is usually the case), we will never make a step forward. Like you, I am also from the old school but I have learned that it's better to look for the good that the evil - both are everywhere you look.

 

[ihaveherps]

Ihaveherps, after a lifetime in the herp circles, I don't know too many participants that would qualify for the saint status, including some big names who are now in the forefront of herpetoculture, even in herpetology, not excluding myself. If we keep looking back and polarizing people by what we "have heard" about them (which is usually the case), we will never make a step forward. Like you, I am also from the old school but I have learned that it's better to look for the good that the evil - both are everywhere you look.

Michael, Im totally on board with your post, believing that every person has the right to make their own judgments, be right or wrong, though this isnt what Im debating. For the sake of the point at hand, lets divorce the person, from the act of aligning your name with your product/company.

The target audience, the punter, the herper, however small a percentage, expressed concern about paying to a face-less company, thats a fact... and as far as business sense (seeing as the point of the symposium being a registered business is flung around), the reply was poor. Rather than take on board the criticism, and at best opening the information to the public (obviously the absolute best outcome seeing as the nature of the concerns, and being raised in public forum), the company stance was to argue the right to stay un-named, and even remove the organisers name once it was bought to the publics attention. As an objective bystander, it was dismissive at the very least (price never ruled me out, work schedule did).

I am not attacking the symposium itself as i am sure it is an asset to the herp community, though as a business , the way the general public was handled, and concerns addressed, leaves alot to be required. To be honest, the post of yours above is testament to the shady foundations that, if we are to be honest, this entire herp hobby is founded on... but we dont always have to play in the shaddows.

Hopefully you can read this not as venomous, but as a third party observation, and take it on board, rather than dismiss as an attack.

 

[Waterrat]

I take it on board but I will refrain from relevant comments as I am not the best qualified / authorised person to do so.

 

[ihaveherps]

Oh, and waterrat.... should have signed off with my name..... Simon, bought you a glass of wine at the last castle hill expo, maybe you remember... just so you dont assume Im hiding behind my username....

 

[Waterrat]

I must have had too many that night, I don't remember. Perhaps it's time for me to buy you one - at the next symposium in Sydney?

Cheers mate.

 

[SammySnakes]

Who says i dont know any herpetologists?!! There is a big difference between keeping one or two reptiles versus propagating them. How many of your herpetologist friends actually breed and sell their reptiles?

I never said there are many herpetologists also breeding their herps on a large scale for sale. You stated that they are "against the keeping of reptiles in captivity". I merely pointed out that this is totally incorrect so that any newcomers to this site or the hobby would not get the wrong impression of professional herpetologists, who almost always support the keeping of reptiles in captivity.

 

[ihaveherps]

I never said there are many herpetologists also breeding their herps on a large scale for sale. You stated that they are "against the keeping of reptiles in captivity". I merely pointed out that this is totally incorrect so that any newcomers to this site or the hobby would not get the wrong impression of professional herpetologists, who almost always support the keeping of reptiles in captivity.

Sammy, i think you will find that CP.com.au was well on the money. Steve Irwin, was on the record for being against people keeping reptiles as pets, as are a great majority of herpetologists.... and i fully understand where they are coming from to an extent. As has been previously addressed, dont confuse herpetology with herpetoculture.... oil and water, like an ensemble doing swan lake in a mine-field.

 

[Waterrat]

Simon, it needs to be understood that Steve Irwin was not a herpetologist (by any stretch of imagination) and was never accepted as such in the herpetological community. This is not to put s... on him, just a sheer fact.
In the past, many amateur herpers "used" professional herpetologists to get permits, etc., often with undesirable intentions. That alone put a gap between the two groups. However, oil and water sometimes fixes well, just need to add some catalyst.

 

[ihaveherps]

Simon, it needs to be understood that Steve Irwin was not a herpetologist (by any stretch of imagination) and was never accepted as such in the herpetological community. This is not to put s... on him, just a sheer fact.
In the past, many amateur herpers "used" professional herpetologists to get permits, etc., often with undesirable intentions. That alone put a gap between the two groups. However, oil and water sometimes fixes well, just need to add some catalyst.

with tongue firmly implanted in my cheek... a much lesser human being had the the term "broghammerus" instilled as a permenant fixture to our herp vocabulary. Not only has the species held, but now has both timorensis, and reticulatus in the fold.... ahhh the alure of being able to be held as a herpetologist.... such an exclusive field.

Again, im with you though....

 

[SammySnakes]

As he was a reptile keeper, I would regard Steve Irwin as a herpetolculturalist moreso than a herpetologist. If he was against private keeping as suggested, it would make this opinion hypocritical.
In regards to the tongue in cheek comment above, I really can't think of an appropriate term to group that type of herp enthusiast

 

[Waterrat]

Lets not go down the S.I. road, it's a mine field and has nothing to do with this thread. What was this thread about???

 

[silverback]

michael, i thought you would have thrown into the mix, herpetoculture 101, by de Vosjoli, "if you don't breed herps, by definition, you cannot be a herpetoculturist" - presentation #1 at the symposium.
herpetologists, herpetoculturists, pet herp keepers, herp dealers....we all share a related passion, and i am sure most have overlapping interests.

 

[Allen_Repashy]

I just got my feet back on the ground over here and thought I would see if there was any talk about the Symposium on here. I first want to thank the organizers for the first class hospitality all of us Yanks received. We landed in Cairns and went strait from the Airport parking lot after 20+ hours of airtime, to a 15 hour rip to the tip of Cape York and the Iron Range. We had an awesome trip, and the early rains teased out a lot of herps for us, including two Chondros and a V. keithhornei (DOR) ...

We originally planned a whole week up there, but after three days, saw all our target species, so decided to blast down to the Tablelands for a change of scenery and found more great stuff. I think our species count for the trip was more than 50.

I think I can speak for all the presenters that we had an awesome time and hope that we get invited back for Sydney. We all made some great new friends and I really enjoyed the enthusiasm of the attendee's. Us speakers were a bit stressed about all the fuss and expectations on us to provide some useful information, and I hope those in attendance found the value they were looking for.

I particularly enjoyed meeting people at the ice breaker, between talks, and into the night. It is exciting to see the hobby in Oz go from totally underground, to near mainstream in the 20 years I have been making trips.

I look forward to Sydney and being a continued part of this great event. I wish we had a show in the US that was as well organized....

Allen Repashy

 

[silverback]

for those of you who don't know Allen. you should familiarise yourself via www.repashy.com at risk of embarrassing him, we had a slight hiccup, when a speaker was unable to attend due to a family tragedy. when Allen got off the plane in Cairns, he gave me a thumb drive, and said " i'm sorry to hear about Craig's dad, i just threw this together for you if you want me to do the topic he was doing as well." i can guarantee that the presentation he gave on "the transition from hobby to business" will be the most sought after presentation when the video discs are available, the whole hobby/industry should see it.

Allen epitomises professionalism, and diplomacy and is an ambassador for the entire herp community.

Thanks for throwing that together mate.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I think the DVD should only be made available to people that attended the Symposium! Why bother with the masses that can never see any good in anything? If there is one thing that I learned at this expo then it's that " It's OK to share! Local hobbyists are too scared to share any information these days as somebody else might be successful using their techniques. God forbid that somebody else could have success in their lives! I had a chat with Allen after the symposium and realised just what an innovator he is when it comes to the industry. They don't just breed reptiles, they create and develop products that help other people keep reptiles better. Share, share , share! That's what it's all about! I also learned that there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money out of doing something that you love! I also found it fascinating that Allen does not employ reptile keepers as they have always ended up stealing from him? Funny that!