The appeal of venom ??

[sd1981]

I think the most amazing thing about elapids is when they are active and you are watching them....you can see intelligence in their eyes. They are extremely alert and aware of you and your movements. They watch you like a hawk and you can see the wheels turning inside their head...
Whereas watching a python (of which I admit I have lots and lots of) looks like watching some stoner dude or a drunk lying on a bench at the local park....not much going on up top....

That what I get when dealing with my Lacie, one of the reasons that I got out of pythons and into monitors 10 years ago, The pythons just sat there most of the time, didn't do much, yeah you can handle them but their intelligence only seemed to show at time of feeding...
Very interesting thread with heaps of good opinions, scary really as the points raised as to why people keep vens is basically what was missing from my python keeping days.....apart from the burn of venom that is!!!!

 

[Bluetongue1]

I can only agree. A warm Yellow-faced Whip is a pain in the butt to try to handle. But watch one in full flight in a pit and the speed, grace and agility is something to behold. Like RBBs, copperheads are magic snakes to keep and watch, but not one I handled any more than necessary, even though they are not hard to work with.

I am not sure whether it is complacency or plain stupidity that results in some ven keepers being bitten. A mate of mine has been keeping and breeding Death Adders for over 20 years. The young ones are often difficult to get eating and invariably require some measure of assist feeding. Yet he has never been bitten. Bites result from carelessness or poor judgement and if you are keeping dangerously venomous snakes, there is no room for either.

There is one and possibly three deaths involving bites from a RBB. Two were before accurate records were kept and the third was a juvenile who may have developed a secondary reaction. I certainly would not be complacent if bitten. They are, however, probably the most placid of the large elapids and the least likely to bite.

Blue

 

[imported_Varanus]

There is one and possibly three deaths involving bites from a RBB. Two were before accurate records were kept and the third was a juvenile who may have developed a secondary reaction.
Blue

Thanks Blue! Always interesting posts that I learn something from, I wasn't aware of any fatalities from RBB bites. (not something I really research, however...touch wood, touch wood).

 

[spinner_collis]

No recorded deaths from RBB,s their venom is quite low in toxicity compared to other Aussie elapids...

Though you could loose a finger or two due to the narcrosis!

 

[princessparrot]

idk, i know i like reading about them and stuff cause they are deadly and dangerous, but im no sure id want to keep one!

 

[eipper]

Blue,

where are you getting your fatality information on porphyriacus? Can you please supply references.

Cheers
scott

 

[Bananapeel]

I would love to own a rbb and a copperhead, simply because I have so much respect for them. Plus they make for fabulous and very intriguing pets, if thorough care is taken. However, vens are not to be taken lightly and they require a secure cage and an owner who wants only the best for their snake and themselves. After that they become a great animal to own, full of their own perks and most of them are real lookers!
just IMO guys.

 

[baker]

For me the appeal of keeping venomous snakes is simply I find them a lot more interesting than pythons. They are a lot more alert and active of animals than what pythons are. As long as you never get complacent and always treat these snakes with the respect they deserve you should never have a problem with keeping these animals. The only thing that is changes when you are keeping a venomous snake compared to a python is handling technique and how often handling happens. I only handle my elapid when I have to cage maintenance and all I do for this is hook and tail him out of his enclosure and put him in a holding bin. Once I finish I just simply transfer him from the bin back to the enclosure and that is all the handling.
Cheers Cameron

 

[crocodile_dan]

I don't keep elapids yet but have some short experience with them, and once I have stopped moving around I will definitely branch off into the elapid side of the hobby.

But as far as the safety side of management of any potentially dangerous species goes you should always have an "emergency protocol" for any time that an accident does occur, and simply hope that you never have to use it. There are too many factors that we can do our best to prevent but at the end of the day accidents do occur. It's much better to be prepared for a "worst-case scenario" and never have to use it than become faced with a situation that you aren't prepared for.

Hypothetically what would you do if the enclosure is compromised (glass door breaks etc)? What would you do if it happens at night? What would you do if you are only wearing underwear etc? What would you do if the power is out when it happens?... there are far too many variables that could possibly create a snowball effect. I'm not sure if this thought process is common amongst elapid keepers but it is something I personally will aim to at least have some plan to act once I do start to keep such species. Just my opinion.

 

[moosenoose]

No recorded deaths from RBB,s their venom is quite low in toxicity compared to other Aussie elapids...

No recorded deaths might be true, but loss of digits (fingers in particular is a real issue with black snakes)

On the ven front. I find that most captives settle down to be pretty docile. My male red belly doesn't particularly like me, as much as I've tried to settle him down.

Tiger snakes, if you spend the time with them, make really well balanced captives. But admittedly they aren't for everyone.

Who said you can't give em a little tickle? :lol: Tiger by the tail anyone? :lol:

 

[RedFox]

In a few years, I will have elapids and colubrids. I love my pythons but on my ultimate snake wishlist there are a lot more elapids than pythons. I guess it depends on what you want in a pet. I get a lot more pleasure watching my pythons move around their enclosures and "doing snake things" than actually handling them.

I love making their enclosures and fulfilling their needs so colubrids and then elapids just seem like a natural progression. Plus it would be awesome to have something that is awake during the day as my python doesn't wake up until the evening.

We are so lucky to have such a variety of snakes in Australia.

 

[fantapants]

No recorded deaths from RBB,s their venom is quite low in toxicity compared to other Aussie elapids...

Venomoose, this was in reference to a comment in a post "... a RB could kill me" which was later edited and removed

Losing your sense of smell/taste is also another interesting side effect of RBB bites for some

 

[moosenoose]

No probs. I wasn't being picky or anything. Just thought I'd add to what you were saying

 

[gold&black...]

What I wouldn't give to own a few scaleless adders... Really like them.

 

[Yogi]

Hello all,

A RBBS has a recorded death it was a small child in the early days. (that snake could have been huge). But there venom is not designed to kill like a taipan or eastern brown instead your arm might root off (yes this might be a little to far) but you would be unwise to think they don't back a punch. They are the best looking snake no doubt and that will be my first Ben upon getting my reptile class 3 lic. Cheers Jacob

 

[Stuart]

Hello all,

A RBBS has a recorded death it was a small child in the early days. (that snake could have been huge). But there venom is not designed to kill like a taipan or eastern brown instead your arm might root off (yes this might be a little to far) but you would be unwise to think they don't back a punch. They are the best looking snake no doubt and that will be my first Ben upon getting my reptile class 3 lic. Cheers Jacob

Hi Jacob,

Could you point us in the direction of any documented proof that it was the RBB venom that was the cause of death? I was under the understanding that death was caused by other issue but would be happy to be proven wrong if its the case. I would be interested to see any info on this instance if its available.

Cheers
S

 

[Rob8290]

One day I would love to have a RBB but I wouldn't handle it at all. That would create a problem as to how I would clean the enclosure

 

[eipper]

Alright I will just come out and say it......there is no verified records of a fatality in Pseudechis porphyriacus and I quote

"No documented Deaths have been caused by this snake; however, it could well prove lethal to a child."

pg 94, Genus Pseudechis, 'Black Snakes' in Australian Animal Toxins-The creatures, their toxins and care of the poisoned patient by Struan Sutherland, 1983.

Since 1983, there have been no documented death(s) from this species either.

I find it frustrating with this seeming fixation of the potentially lethality, in some species. It is all Hypothetical on how YOU will react to the toxin. There can be assumptions based on case histories, toxicology etc but there will be unknown parameters.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Bananapeel]

Plus 1^^^

 

[Bluetongue1]

Scott, I will try and chase up the references again. Last time I tried, the article chronicling the death of a juvenile, could not be found. As I stated, there were complicating factors which made it difficult to determine if the venom alone was responsible for the death.

I understand your concerns with labelling venomous snakes as dangerous and not dangerous, because different individuals can develop and react hyper-sensitively to select proteins present in the venom. The basic protocol that should follow from this is to take any snakebite as potentially serious, apply first aid and get to medical assistance. However, the foregoing unusual reactions to snake venom do not impede the effects of the major toxins present in the venom of any given species. It is not inappropriate for people to predict the likely outcome of a snake bite based upon knowledge of the major toxins contained therein.

Crocodile_Dan, you raised some good points. There are a few dos and don’ts to keeping vens. Probably first and foremost, if you are on your own then you should not be interacting with vens. At the very least you need a phone contact of someone nearby who can come to your assist at a moment’s notice, if required. Appropriately applied pressure bandage and immobilisation will buy you some time but you still need help to get to medical assistance. Whenever working with vens you need to be appropriately dressed. If you are feeding any animal after dark, it is common sense to have a working torch within reach. If you trip the power out or there is a suburban power outage, it could well mean the difference between losing a snake and getting it safely back in its cage. Simple commonsense stuff really. I did not address the issue of a cage being compromised because if it is correctly constructed, which is not difficult, it will never happen.

Venomoose, that is an awesome looking snake. Where did it originate from? I must admit, If I had to catch one, I would much rather tail a Tiger Snake than a Dugite any day. Despite their reputation for putting on a display, I have got to say that I find wild Tigers pretty laid back whereas Dugites are often anything but.

Bananapeel, love the attitude. Maintain it and you will make an excellent ven keeper should you decide to go that way in the future.

There are lots of lizards that do it for me too. The fact that given reptile I like happens to be venomous only affects the handling and not the appreciation.

Blue