These eggs freak me out every time!!!

[azn4114]

can you keep us updated with pics as they come out?theres only 2 pythons i want to add to my collection,another bhp and an albino darwin..

 

[mungus]

I also pip, but at about 50 - 55 days.
I cut a 10cm V shape in the top of the egg.

 

[Jay84]

God, when i heard the term pipping i assumed it was just a little slit put in the egg, not a whole section removed?!?!? Thats very interesting and great photos! So what are the reasons for the young not being able to hatch naturally? Is it because the albino hatchlings are sometimes not as strong as the normal coloured snakes? I know in birds, sometimes the mutation animals are weaker than the normal coloured birds.

 

[Just_Joshin]

Would this not encourage survival of snakes that maybe should not have survived in the first place?? i.e. a hatchy with genes that prevents poor or no egg tooth developement?? by pipping in advance you do no know whether this is the case or not, then if these snakes go on to breed for successive generations, with one another (as albinos tend to due to a small founder population), then it could result in poor gene fitness amongst the bloodline??

Just a thought.

 

[dottyback]

Amazing photo's Niccy! That would make for an excellent article for a herp magazine/paper.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

They would not climb out of the egg if they were weak. Most breeders that I know pip their eggs once the first hatchling sticks it head out. Weak snakes will not eat or would be fussy feeders from birth. I don't believe in assist feeding or force feeding. Once they are out they are offered food every week. If they don't eat then I don't force them. I start all my hatchling pythons on pinky rats. I have had hatchlings go 10 months before taking food by themselves. If by pipping I was weakening my lines then surely these hatchlings would die eventually. I think us snake keepers sometimes do not give these animals survival instinct enough credit.

 

[Just_Joshin]

They would not climb out of the egg if they were weak. Most breeders that I know pip their eggs once the first hatchling sticks it head out. Weak snakes will not eat or would be fussy feeders from birth. I don't believe in assist feeding or force feeding. Once they are out they are offered food every week. If they don't eat then I don't force them. I start all my hatchling pythons on pinky rats. I have had hatchlings go 10 months before taking food by themselves. If by pipping I was weakening my lines then surely these hatchlings would die eventually. I think us snake keepers sometimes do not give these animals survival instinct enough credit.

I was referring to the non-developement or absence of an egg tooth (i.e. unable to naturally pip themselves, a genetic abnormality perhaps), not the likely hood of leaving an already pipped egg. These animals would naturally die as a result because they would not be able to get out of the egg. How can you know if this was the case if you don't wait for atleast the first egg to pip??

Don't get me wrong, i'm not having a go, just generally curious to your input. I've been doing some scientific reading into python genetics and IMO heavy inbreeding (while maybe not causing a physical abnormality) may have other genetic effects that aren't instantly or easily apparent (i.e. parasite/disease resistance, egg tooth development, reproductive health in terms of egg/sperm production and %slugs etc).

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I will endeavour to take some photos of their egg tooth for you. I have not seen a hatchling without an egg tooth, ever.

 

[Just_Joshin]

I will endeavour to take some photos of their egg tooth for you. I have not seen a hatchling without an egg tooth, ever.

No need, I believe you.

What are your thoughts then, on why they would not naturally pip the egg and just sit in there to die?? (like that clutch did for you). I only ask because you state you now pip to avoid this happening? Maybe if they didn't naturally pip the egg then it was for a reason? Maybe other genetic factors are at play?? egg construction perhaps??

The clutch that you lost from not pipping, did they have egg teeth that were well developed or did you not happen to notice??

 

[Kersten]

I still can't understand why it is necessary to pip eggs before the due date. As long as the incubation conditions are good, and the snakes themselves are healthy and properly developed, I would have thought there would be no reason to expose them before they are ready to emerge. As I'm always interested to learn new methods of dealing with breeding, incubating and handling hatchings, I'm curious to know what the reason was?

 

[pythons73]

So after 51 days you pipped them,they dont generally hatch in that time,i dont understand why you dont wait until 55-60 days.If they were destined to hatch they would.I realise everyone has there way of doing things,but to me this is unnecassy....MARK

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I pipped them at day 51, I feel this is the best method for myself. It's hard work to get out of the eggs so I give them a hand. This leaves energy for more important things in life, like eating and growing. Why do we give human babies ceasareans, surely they can make it out on their own? We choose to make the process easier.

 

[BROWNS]

I have had hatchlings die in the egg in years gone past. This prevents them from drowning and dying in the egg. Just gave them a helping hand into this world.

Sorry if I have misunderstood you but you said you have only had eggs die or drown in their eggs one time yet in the above quote you say you have had hatchlings die in yyears gone past" which suggests to me it may have happened more than just once.If they have died in the egg in the past there has to be a reason for that.Did they have their egg tooth?As has been mentioned it may be a genetic problem with them having no egg tooth and if they didn't have one they obviously weren't destined to hatch?If it were to be genetic and you bred the animals that had been pipped possibly without an egg tooth it would pass that gene on to the next generation.I don't understand why you didn't wait until at least a head or more was poking out before pipping all the rest.

Just looking at the animals in the eggs and they don't appear fully developed or ready to hatch as they look all white and they only get their hatchling colour a few days before hatching and seems a little early into the incubation to cut them open hence the possibility or reason for them looking all white and as many albino owners will know they hatch out a pinkish colour and a 2 tone pattern and look a lot different than the ones in the cut eggs.This is just an observation and my opinion on the information given along with the pics.

 

[No-two]

So after 51 days you pipped them,they dont generally hatch in that time,i dont understand why you dont wait until 55-60 days.If they were destined to hatch they would.I realise everyone has there way of doing things,but to me this is unnecassy....MARK

I know of several cases where people have lost entire clutches cause the snakes couldn't get out of the eggs, had they have piped them, they'd all be alive now. Just cause theres a fully formed snake in the egg and it hasn't hatched yet it doesn't mean it hasn't tried. In atleast one case the snakes had no egg tooth, and couldn't slice the eggs.

But saying that I never pip unless I've seen one head.

 

[Kris]

Edit, will repost in my acc.

Kersten

 

[Kersten]

Caesarians for human babies are often done not only for the health of the baby, but of the mother. They are also rarely (if ever) done from a personal preference. Snakes lay multiple eggs to increase the likelihood of at least one surviving past laying. Humans most often only have one child at a time, multiple births past triplets are usually the result of human intervention, not biological design. Snakes are left to fend for themselves on hatching (excepting perhaps African Rock Pythons), human babies are cared for by their mothers until they can fend for themselves. Comparisons of "birthing methods" for the two are at best illogical. There are few similarities, we are designed for completely different methods of reproduction. If you were talking about the mother or other snakes being able to pip eggs to help them hatch the comparison might fit a little better. As it stands, it has little relevance as a reason to interfere prematurely.

Oh and as a further note....we have evolved to posses the ability to interfere in our own birthing processes to increase our chances of successful reproduction. Snakes, obviously, have not.

 

[BROWNS]

Sorry I'm a bit lost here Kersten,who was making the comparison or were you using it as a sort of example?

 

[Kersten]

Carpetpythons.com.au used the example of human intervention in human births as a comparison to her intervention with the eggs in post 32. Sorry Browns, I should have included the quote but when I posted it I didn't think anyone was likely to post between the post I was referring to and mine.

 

[BROWNS]

Aha now I see what you mean and completely agree with you.Makes one wonder if they were coastal eggs and the paranoia of losing one or more if the same practice would be carried out?Honestly I can't see anything but what look like leucistic animals"all white" meaning they wouldn't be ready to hatch just yet.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I have had hatchling inland carpet pythons die full term after slicing holes in their eggs and poking their heads out. Human childbirth is a fair example, it's our choice to choose. What happened before we had ceasareans? The mother and baby died. It happens with all animals these days. Because we choose to intervene, babies and hatchlings alike have a better chance of survival. Browns: how many eggs have you seen with albinos in them and have you ever seen a hatchling without an egg tooth? I know I have not ever seen a hatchling without an egg tooth. I pip them at 51 days, I find that this method insure all of them have 100% chance of survival and no egg deaths at full term.