Venomous Exotics in Australia

[instar]

David?

 

[NCHERPS]

David,
I can see where your coming from and agree that the gate needs to be shut, before the horse has bolted, as it were.
I also hope that people come forward anonymously and let the authorities know what they have, they could do this from a Internet cafe if they were worried about people tracing there IP addresses.

It is worrying, The 2nd snake I bought out here was from a guy in the Sydney area, he didn't know me from Adam, and thought he would brag about the snakes he had, including exotic's, he said that he could get me Boa's, corns and venomous, he told be he had a Morrocan rattlesnake, and I just went along with what he said and told him I wasn't interested in exotic's, as I had kept them for 19 yrs, as I am from the UK.
The worrying thing is, if you haven't already gathered, is that rattlesnakes don't come from Morroco or anywhere else in Africa for that matter, he clearly had know idea what he had in his posession, other than a rattlesnake! Very worrying, especially as he said that the snakes were kept around his parents house.

I have worked with Daboia russelli siamensis, and yes they are nasty buggers, that fella and his family would of had a lucky escape!

Neil

 

[Simon_Archibald]

David just PM'd me with an interesting point about Australia Post/Customs workers that may be tagged by an illegally imported specimen. I think for these reasons, it would definately be necessary and worthwhile to have supplies of anitvenoms on hand. Good point David, I had not thought of this.

Simon Archibald

 

[instar]

much legal wrangling would be required to produce these antivenoms though. i see red tape everywhere.

 

[Simon_Archibald]

much legal wrangling would be required to produce these antivenoms though. i see red tape everywhere.

As has been stated many times already, exotic snakes are being milked at SA Venom. If the government allows the milking to go on, then the distribution of such anit-vemons would not pose a problem that I can see.

Also, I'd assume it would be similar to how the ARP sell their snake venoms to reaearch institutes. Maybe Australian distributors would purchase from overseas producers.

Simon Archibald

 

[instar]

This lady was actually waiting 4 1/2 hours for treatment and nearly died.

My apology then Simon, i thought the lady was hypathetical too. Glad shes ok. Long waits for similar injuries are common, i think you'll find. Perhaps the hospital was run off its feet, with more urgent cases, lack of staff, lack of beds etc etc etc.

 

[toxinologist]

There are mechanisms already in place to enable antivenom to be acquired from suppliers around the world .. setting up a central repository is just one of the ideas to be explored as a result of the forum at the ARP.

The majority of exotic bites (and there haven't been many - although 22 years ago I was one of them) are bites suffered by zoo keepers involving legal snakes. Apart from the puff adder bite in Sydney, there was mention of bites involving cobra species among the non-zoo fraternity.

In real life there may only be one bite in the next ten years - but the consensus is that even that one accident needs to be planned for - and let's hope it isn't a keeper's child.

Even a poll question (which would be anonymous) would provide helpful info - although having some idea of the diversity (types of snakes) to be polled is necessary.

Cheers


Dave

 

[Simon_Archibald]

My apology then Simon, i thought the lady was hypathetical too. Glad shes ok.

...I believe that's a genuine mistake. Thank you for apologising.

Simon Archibald

 

[instar]

. Didnt know about S.A venom simon. I imagined importation of venoms for production would be ness.

Thanks David, Im thinking an amnesty, more geared toward assessing genuine information about numbers and diversity of exotics, rather than towards "last chance before prosecution" would have been much more useful in that regard. maybe a trade deal, a new license for exotics (currently held only) in return for information andvenom for use as antivenom?

 

[Fuscus]

I know it is expensive to maintain exotic anti-venoms. From memory it costs the adelaide zoo $17k every three months to maintain the anti-venom for a particular species of rattler. The talk was a while ago and I can't fully remenber the details.

 

[instar]

Good point fuscus, cant see the same goverment funding anything like that, mores the pity.
thats alot of money, maybe my hypathetical legal exotic licensees should have to pay hefty fees to cover that? Is that money raised thruogh general revenue of the zoo, or are they subsidised at all?

 

[toxinologist]

Most antivenoms have a shelf life of 3 years - the Antivypermin (Rattlesnake) AV from Mexico costs less than US$75 per ampoule - up to 20 or so are needed for a mild envenomation I think from memory - this is the stuff Adelaide have.

Australian zoos buy their own antivenoms and have indicated a willingness to allow that antivenom to be used in an emergency involving a private keeper.

We know what the zoos and venom suppliers have - both in terms of snakes and antivenoms - what we need to know is what species others have so that when antivenoms are purchased we can try to get the best coverage for all contingencies,

Cheers


Dave

 

[sydneygoldsales.com]

Why not step back a few years and allow people to snail mail you what they have.

Nothing can be traced to a letter.

 

[peterescue]

And Simon, Making condoms unavailable will stop teenagers having sex too.
Peter

Upbeat Pete, if you believe that (and the scary thing is I think you might) then we're all in trouble.

Simon Archibald

I thought it was more your type of thinking Simon. Goes with that conservative pulpit your preaching from.
Peter

 

[Farkurnell]

The data base is an excellent idea but it's highly unlikely that many people would come forward to add to it.

Apart from the couple of examples of near misses you've told us about already, is it known how many cases of exotic bitten people have been treated in hospitals here in Australia?



.....and to go ever so slightly off topic.
Simon old mate, you might wanna spark up a joint now and again just to chill out a bit. You could do with it.





Cheers, Gregory.

 

[sxereturn]

And also, Simon, ever heard of the term 'civil disobedience'?

You have the same mentality as Christians, which ISN'T a good thing.

 

[earthmother]

IMO We don't NEED anymore snakes. We have the most spectacular venomous species on earth right here.
We are displaying the greed of other countries who's need for more has caused naught but trouble in their own environments.

With our conservation laws and with the amazing number of species of reptile we already have at our own backdoor, we are pushing the envelope.
We definitely do not need any overseas imports, they always somehow become a pest (ie: Red Eared Slider communities, cane toads, foxes, rabbits etc.)

I can be moved on most things and am happy to be corrected about facts.
But this is an opinion that is long seated and I hope we do not go the way of commercialising our reptile trade to a point that we equate the introduction of more reptiles with more dollars, and where we forget our own native reptile resources and belittle their place in our habitat.

Em

 

[Slateman]

Hi Dave
I would be not involved with such a thing here on APS. we are busy enough as it is , and that action would be better handle by authorities.
Your article is most interesting. And ofcourse we should be ready to treet anybody who need it if possible with out doubt. Humanity is the answer.

 

[sxereturn]

IMO We don't NEED anymore snakes. We have the most spectacular venomous species on earth right here.
We are displaying the greed of other countries who's need for more has caused naught but trouble in their own environments.

Have you ever SEEN something like a Rhino Viper? Or a Gaboon Viper? How about a Forest Cobra? Or a rattler? As I said, I had the same opinion as you until I got upclose with these animals, and I am still in awe. Picture a 5 foot long Death Adder, with a head bigger than your hand, inch long horns coming out beside it's nostrils, scales so strongly keeled they will cut you like a cheese grater, and the most amazing colour patterns I have ever seen. Not to mention fangs that are 2+ inches long. What do we have in Australia that even resembles that?

With our conservation laws and with the amazing number of species of reptile we already have at our own backdoor, we are pushing the envelope.
We definitely do not need any overseas imports, they always somehow become a pest (ie: Red Eared Slider communities, cane toads, foxes, rabbits etc.)

The only one of those examples that is relevant is the Red Eared Sliders. If the government had some sort of regulation system, there wouldn't be a problem! If someone wants to get rid of their animal, and none of their friends want it, what are they meant to do? They can't advertise it for sale, and they can't kill their pet...so they release it. If it weren't illegal to keep these guys they wouldn't be in the wild.

I can be moved on most things and am happy to be corrected about facts.
But this is an opinion that is long seated and I hope we do not go the way of commercialising our reptile trade to a point that we equate the introduction of more reptiles with more dollars, and where we forget our own native reptile resources and belittle their place in our habitat.

The reptiles won't need to be introduced, there is already a HUGE underground industry, they are already here. I don't see any other option really...

 

[instar]

I agree with minimising harm/change to our enviroment as much as any dyed-in-the-wool greeny, but i have a huge fascination for wildlife of anykind or origin. The world is becoming a smaller place and with that comes an expectation of wider experience. People have a right to experience all our world has to offer, be that, medicine, tecknowledgy or wildlife. We cant all travel the world sadly, that limits our experience. Its the 21st century, we can fly to mars, we can have the pleasure of owning an animal from anywhere. "We have the techknowledgy and the means to do it safely. I do beleive that, Strictly legislated, licensed, quaranteened and sterilised exotics have a place in our country, outside of zoo,s and wildlife parks. Terrible mistakes (wildlife) of the past, have been hard lessons, but we now know the effects of tampering with ecosystems. If we never kept blowing up rockets, we would never have made it to the moon. Safe exotic animal ownership is so much more easily acheived in the modern world, Fear has always been the greatest hurdle (right after beaurocracy)