Virus or Old Age.......

[Mouse]

Back in June 2017, we bought a male spotted python from a pet shop. We were told his age was unknown as he's previously been owned by another breeder, he was thought to be "older". So we took him home.

He appeared a little on the thin side but was active, His tongue was always very slow when he flicked it out. So we named him "Old Man". After giving him time to settle in we offered him his first feed. He ate, but didn't coil up around his food like our girls do. It was more of grab and roll but not tightly.

He has refused feeds after the first feed for a while, but I wasn't concerned as it is winter and nobody was real keen to eat.

We've now had him for approx 6 weeks, he started to show some weird signs. He would hide his head under his body, he would rub / roll his head so the first 2 to 3 inches were upside down. Almost a little drunk looking. He was showing no other signs of looking like he would shed. Within the next week he had died.

We are now about 8 weeks since his death and I have a bad feeling that this was more than old age. We have two female spotted pythons. One of them is displaying very similar symptoms. She's lost a little bit of weight, she's now a fusy eater, when she used to eat anything put under her nose. She appears lethargic, and she's rolling her head, hides her head, appears to be drunk and seems to twist herself into weird positions.
She didn't coil up around her last feed as tight as she used too. She's also showing no signs of shedding.

We are concerned that we may have unknowing brought home something contagious. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Mouse.

 

[pinefamily]

Welcome to APS. Did you keep the new python separate from you others?
If one of your others is showing similar signs, get it to a reptile vet ASAP.

 

[SpottedPythons]

Get it to a reptile vet ASAP, and seperate your remaining animals immediately. Do not let them share the same airspace, and place them in different rooms on different floors if possible. Adopt strict quarantine style procedures (disinfecting your feet or hands after feeding, handling or cleaning), and don't feed and handle them on the same day. Same goes for handling other people's reptiles, if you are visiting a collection or a pet shop. Make sure any other people in the house are briefed about this, and stay under this procedure until vet says otherwise. Some of the symptoms described match those of the neuro - respiratory disease Sunshine Virus, and indeed the Spotted Python is amongst the 8 species of python known to carry this disease. Never buy again from that breeder. Some of the symptoms recorded in Sunshine virus is loss of balance and righting instinct, which could account for the "drunk" symptoms you see in your animals.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

I agree with SP. Get it to a vet.

 

[Iguana]

There's a test your vet can do for the sunshine virus, it's a PCR test I believe and costs around $120-$180. You get the results back pretty quickly.

 

[pythoninfinite]

The most important question, already asked, was about quarantine measures. Pet shops, with a large number of animals from who-knows-where going through their cages, will always be very risky places to buy snakes. The symptoms you describe, without confirmation otherwise, definitely sound like those of one of the highly contagious, always fatal viral diseases. There is a high chance the animal currently exhibiting symptoms has also been infected if this is the case, and if the animal that died, or your feeding tongs or anything else used in your management protocols, has been in contact with your previously healthy snakes, you may lose them all in coming weeks/months. A blood test is available for Sunshine Virus, as already stated, and this is the most common contagious viral disease of snakes in Australia. If your snakes survive, you should have them tested before introducing any new animals to your collection, and this ONLY AFTER A MINIMUM OF 6 MONTHS COMPLETE QUARANTINE for the new arrivals. That is - in a separate room, with separate feeding and cleaning utensils, and always feeding/cleaning or otherwise dealing with the new acquisitions last - don't move from the possibly infected new arrivals to your existing animals.

A bit of good advice I think - look for a reputable breeder (ask around for other opinions) and buy from them. It would probably be cheaper anyway, and good breeders take great care not to introduce potentially infected animals into their collections.

Jamie

 

[Mouse]

Thanks for all your input, He was living separately but obviously we haven't been meticulous enough. We don't have access to a reptile vet. We live in country Victoria about 3 hours from Melbourne.

 

[Fall guys]

Thanks for all your input, He was living separately but obviously we haven't been meticulous enough. We don't have access to a reptile vet. We live in country Victoria about 3 hours from Melbourne.

You aren’t willing to drive 3hours to potentially save your reptiles lives from a fatal virus if that’s what it is? :s

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

This is another wind up.

 

[SpottedPythons]

And it's not just about your animals... if you have contact with any other reptile while there's a virus in your collection, it can potentially create an outbreak amongst other people's collections. Get to the vet - it really shouldn't even need to be debated about!

 

[pythoninfinite]

You aren’t willing to drive 3hours to potentially save your reptiles lives from a fatal virus if that’s what it is? :s

And it's not just about your animals... if you have contact with any other reptile while there's a virus in your collection, it can potentially create an outbreak amongst other people's collections. Get to the vet - it really shouldn't even need to be debated about!

In a case like this you should not take a "holier than thou" approach and cast judgement on what you think another member should do. You know nothing of the personal circumstances of this member, and living regionally as I do myself, I know how difficult it can be to dedicate a whole day and a lot of money in travel and professional costs, for what will be a pre-determined outcome anyway. Getting the snakes to a vet will have no effect on the outcome - if they are uninfected, they will be fine. If they are infected, they will die whether or not they are seen by a vet. The member now knows about the dangers of transmitting these diseases, and will likely be aware of any potential risks associated with contact with other snakes. SpottedPythons, ordering people to "get to the vet" is extremely rude and likely to be very unproductive. The member Mouse came onto this site for advice, not judgement.

Jamie

 

[Iguana]

I acknowledge that it's pretty difficult to get to a vet if you live that far away.
However, with sunshine virus, animals can be carriers of the disease and not show an symptoms, this means they can still pass on the virus to other animals. This means that any 'unaffected' animals, could in fact be carriers, and infect future animals. This information came from my vet when we discussed sunshine awhile ago.
Maybe it's worth calling up a reptile vet? See if you could work out maybe posting some samples to them?

 

[SpottedPythons]

I apologize if my tone was inappropriate, but if an animal has already died, and another is exhibiting the same symptoms, then they should still try to get a vet. Even if they are unable to drive to a vet, my advice is still to at least contact a vet. They will be able to discuss the symptoms and necessary virus isolation techniques with Mouse. Or possibly he could contact the pet shop which sold him the infected animal in the first place and negotiate something - after all, it was from their collection or their stock's collection where the virus came from. Also, the vet will be able to diagnose the remaining Spotted Python to see whether it carries the virus: not completely useless going. Vet will also be able to potentially euthanize to prevent spread and excess suffering of the animal.

 

[Fall guys]

In a case like this you should not take a "holier than thou" approach and cast judgement on what you think another member should do. You know nothing of the personal circumstances of this member, and living regionally as I do myself, I know how difficult it can be to dedicate a whole day and a lot of money in travel and professional costs, for what will be a pre-determined outcome anyway. Getting the snakes to a vet will have no effect on the outcome - if they are uninfected, they will be fine. If they are infected, they will die whether or not they are seen by a vet. The member now knows about the dangers of transmitting these diseases, and will likely be aware of any potential risks associated with contact with other snakes. SpottedPythons, ordering people to "get to the vet" is extremely rude and likely to be very unproductive. The member Mouse came onto this site for advice, not judgement.

Jamie

So if they are affected, might aswell end their suffering right? So they don’t suffer from the virus any longer? If he doesn’t plan on taking to the vet and it’s sill going to die.

Take ol’ yella out the back once he stops doing his job

 

[Wokka]

I don't think you need a REPTILE vet. Any vet could take samples to send to pathology, or euthanise an animal. I would be surprised if there was anywhere in Victoria more than a hour from a vet. If finances are a consideration then the pet shop may contribute to get a definitive answer, as the answer may affect there future business reputation.Either way make sure you advise the petshop of the outcome .

 

[pythoninfinite]

What I was probably trying to say was that it takes a while to assimilate the info members here provided, and it's fair to give the member a bit of time to work out the best way to deal with what was, probably, fairly alarming info. I know myself, living regionally, I can't easily drop everything here and drive 200-300km each way to get the best advice or help, even if it's urgent. A couple of days grace to work out a plan is reasonable I think. As Wokka says, a local vet can liaise with a distant herp vet and will likely get the ball rolling. An unexpected cost of $300-$400 needs to be considered as well.

Jamie

 

[Mouse]

You aren’t willing to drive 3hours to potentially save your reptiles lives from a fatal virus if that’s what it is? :s

1. Oh I'd be interested to know exactly how one would go about saving a life from a fatal virus ???

And it's not just about your animals... if you have contact with any other reptile while there's a virus in your collection, it can potentially create an outbreak amongst other people's collections. Get to the vet - it really shouldn't even need to be debated about!

1. This is why I have resorted to posting on a forum - something I really didn't want to do. But when all else fails and we've hit enough dead ends, I did post. But, due to the inability of some to control themselves and think carefully about what is posted, I was expecting negative or judgemental posts.

2. Our local vet doesn't treat reptiles - they are viewed as vermin not pets in our part of the world. Vets I have been in contact with will not help unless they are seeing the animal. If the vet doesn't have reptile experience how are they going to know what is normal behaviour and abnormal behaviour. It's not as simple as taking ones dog to the vet.
3. It was apparent that we had a problem and wanted confirmation from others who may have seen or dealt with this virus as its not only my reptiles at risk. My nephew also has reptiles and thankfully he lives elsewhere, as the last thing we want is to infect his snakes.

I thank those who have contributed positively and I understand that some would rather stick their heads in the sand rather than discuss what we should or shouldn't do when it comes to controversial issues.

Finally, my nephew's reptiles have all been quarantined from each other and he will wait and see if there has been any infected. As for my snakes, I own 3 - two spotted pythons and a jungle python. They will be euthanised upon showing symptoms - any timber cages and ornaments will be burnt, ceramic bowls and metal tongs will be sterilized. With a view to erradicate the virus from our place.

Mouse

 

[SpottedPythons]

1. This is why I have resorted to posting on a forum - something I really didn't want to do. But when all else fails and we've hit enough dead ends, I did post. But, due to the inability of some to control themselves and think carefully about what is posted, I was expecting negative or judgemental posts.

2. Our local vet doesn't treat reptiles - they are viewed as vermin not pets in our part of the world. Vets I have been in contact with will not help unless they are seeing the animal. If the vet doesn't have reptile experience how are they going to know what is normal behaviour and abnormal behaviour. It's not as simple as taking ones dog to the vet.
3. It was apparent that we had a problem and wanted confirmation from others who may have seen or dealt with this virus as its not only my reptiles at risk. My nephew also has reptiles and thankfully he lives elsewhere, as the last thing we want is to infect his snakes.

I thank those who have contributed positively and I understand that some would rather stick their heads in the sand rather than discuss what we should or shouldn't do when it comes to controversial issues.

Finally, my nephew's reptiles have all been quarantined from each other and he will wait and see if there has been any infected. As for my snakes, I own 3 - two spotted pythons and a jungle python. They will be euthanised upon showing symptoms - any timber cages and ornaments will be burnt, ceramic bowls and metal tongs will be sterilized. With a view to erradicate the virus from our place.

Mouse

If my post was inappropriate, I've apologized for it and offered my advice in a more controlled manner. But if indirect insults from some people are going to keep coming, well, I don't see how that's going to help anyone. Again, sorry if my posts were rash or inconsiderate.

 

[Fall guys]

1. Oh I'd be interested to know exactly how one would go about saving a life from a fatal virus ???



1. This is why I have resorted to posting on a forum - something I really didn't want to do. But when all else fails and we've hit enough dead ends, I did post. But, due to the inability of some to control themselves and think carefully about what is posted, I was expecting negative or judgemental posts.

2. Our local vet doesn't treat reptiles - they are viewed as vermin not pets in our part of the world. Vets I have been in contact with will not help unless they are seeing the animal. If the vet doesn't have reptile experience how are they going to know what is normal behaviour and abnormal behaviour. It's not as simple as taking ones dog to the vet.
3. It was apparent that we had a problem and wanted confirmation from others who may have seen or dealt with this virus as its not only my reptiles at risk. My nephew also has reptiles and thankfully he lives elsewhere, as the last thing we want is to infect his snakes.

I thank those who have contributed positively and I understand that some would rather stick their heads in the sand rather than discuss what we should or shouldn't do when it comes to controversial issues.

Finally, my nephew's reptiles have all been quarantined from each other and he will wait and see if there has been any infected. As for my snakes, I own 3 - two spotted pythons and a jungle python. They will be euthanised upon showing symptoms - any timber cages and ornaments will be burnt, ceramic bowls and metal tongs will be sterilized. With a view to erradicate the virus from our place.

Mouse

It’d be a real shame if you didn’t take them to one of the few reptile vets and it WASNT sunshine virus... you haven’t even posted any pictures.

 

[kittycat17]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro