What am I?

[mattyg]

Mate thats deffantly a Keelback

+1

 

[Bluetongue1]

Rough-scaled Snakes have been recorded just north of Townsville, in the Paluma area. While it looks like a Keelback and location would strongly support that, without a 100% positive (and reliable) ID, it should be treated as if it were a dangerously venomous elapid. Paying someone to come and take it away is the safest option. Although it can be quite easily removed and transported using an appropriate sized plastic bin with a tight fitting lid, I would not recommend it if you are not experienced with dangerous elapids. Safety first!

Blue

 

[Waterrat]

Rough-scaled Snakes have been recorded just north of Townsville, in the Paluma area. While it looks like a Keelback and location would strongly support that, without a 100% positive (and reliable) ID, it should be treated as if it were a dangerously venomous elapid. Paying someone to come and take it away is the safest option. Although it can be quite easily removed and transported using an appropriate sized plastic bin with a tight fitting lid, I would not recommend it if you are not experienced with dangerous elapids. Safety first!

Blue

Blue,
I lived in Paluma for 10 years (because I couldn't stand Townsville lol) and spent most of my free time there herping. There are no Rough-scales there and that has been confirmed by many JCU biologists who conducted their studies there.
If I can draw an analogy; there are two records of Green pythons from the Lockerbie Scrub (Cape York Peninsula). Yet, the latest professional and extensive surveys conclusively showed that the species does not occur there.

cheers
Michael

 

[eitak]

Rough-scaled Snakes have been recorded just north of Townsville, in the Paluma area. While it looks like a Keelback and location would strongly support that, without a 100% positive (and reliable) ID, it should be treated as if it were a dangerously venomous elapid. Paying someone to come and take it away is the safest option. Although it can be quite easily removed and transported using an appropriate sized plastic bin with a tight fitting lid, I would not recommend it if you are not experienced with dangerous elapids. Safety first!

Blue

He is in the pool scoop at the moment so should be able to transfer pretty easily and we live a block away from a nature reserve so was just gonna walk him over . .

We'll see though

 

[Bluetongue1]

The most southerly record for northern Qld is Mt. Spec, about 6 km north of Paluma town site. I appreciate your input Michael and acknowledge that the museum record may well be in error. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

The point I would make is that one does not have to go a lot further north to be within their natural range. Proximity to their distribution increases the possibility of an animal being transported accidentally (or even on purpose) nearby. I am well aware that the chances of this occuring are not great. Some might even say miniscule. While there is some possibility... under these particular circumstances I would not be making an ID call based on distribution.

I am unable to make out sufficient details on the snake, other than apparent head shape, to allow me to confidently say either way. That is why I am curious to know on what basis other have done so.

Blue

 

[eitak]

Blue

Does the head indicate to you keelback or possibly rough scale? (I have no idea, just curious)

 

[Bluetongue1]

Hi Eitak,

Both species have a broad head, distinct from the neck but roughies tend to be a little wider. Yours appears to have a slightly wider than average head for a keelback. However, the patterning visible on the last photo shows lots of pale flecking the full length of the snake. This is characteristic of keelbacks and not roughies. Young roughies have clearly defined dark bands on the front half fading to nothing on the tail. On most, this fades with age and the colour is fairly uniform in adults. The fact that the patterning seems uniform along the entire length of the snake indicates it is almost definitely not a roughie. However, given the quality of the photos and the potential ramifications of getting it wrong, I am reluctant to make the call.

One diagnostic feature that is often readily observable is the shape of the mouth. In roughies the mouth goes straight back, while in keelbacks the mouth curves upwards at the angle of the jaw. They look like they are ‘smiling’. Actually, given it is in a scoop net, you may also be able to observe the anal and sub-caudal scales. In roughies, these are all single, while in keelbacks they are divided (paired).

I know I am being overly cautious but I have seen some nasty results with people who were not cautious enough.

Blue

 

[eitak]

I will have to check out it's mouth from recollection it wasn't smiling - so to speak . . Divided sub caudal scales? I'm not exactly sure what to look for with that?? When we were netting him it was striking with its mouth open - I read somewhere keelbacks tend to strike with their mouth shut? (sorry is that is stupid)

Anyway we are taking it to the nature reserve in the morning, I will check out its belly and mouth and be extra careful either way . .

 

[Waterrat]

Relax Eitak, it's a Kellback, trust me. The keeled scales on a Roughie are not as keeled as those on a Keelback and that detail is quite visible on your "not so good" photos.

cheers
M

 

[eitak]

Ok ok

 

[Pufferfish]

Roughies and Keelbacks look nothing alike when you have seen them in person, even from a not so good picture you can tell it's a keelback.

Please people who have clearly not seen either of those species in the wild or do not keep either of these species comment on these types of threads.


It is a keelback, and a obvious one at that.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Deleted as not relevant

 

[waruikazi]

That is a keelback. I have to agree with pufferfish, if you are not profficient at identifying snakes then you need to keep thoughts to yourself. If this was a roughie and ID'd incorrectly as a keelback the result could be very dangerous for the OP.

This is the tell tale grin you are looking for.

 

[Waterrat]

Please people who have clearly not seen either of those species in the wild or do not keep either of these species comment on these types of threads.

I definitely agree with this statement. Guessing is not enough and poor knowledge can be dangerous.

Blue, it may not help to spell out the identifying characters of each species, what it takes sometimes, is seeing dozens of those snakes and in the process you develop an eye for the similarities and differences. It's not perhaps easy to ID a snake from a poor photographs but in this case, it was a clear case to me.

 

[nathancl]

hahaha the good old debate! they dont look anything alike. clearly a keelback

 

[Bluetongue1]

Deleted as not relevant.

 

[Waterrat]

Oh, sorry for budding in, I thought others were allowed to make relevant comments too.

 

[Mister_Snakes]

I'm not that interested in cars, but, if you were to put a grey falcon next to a grey commodore, apart from the badging, imagine trying to explain to someone the differences that make one the Ford and one the Holden. They're both very similar in basic description, but yet someone who is interested in cars and has seen many of these vehicles could pick it from a long distance.

Is that the most ridiculous analogy ever? lol I don't see the difficulty in IDing the 2, I don't get that many Rough Scales but after 100's of Keelbacks the Rough Scales stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[moosenoose]

Photos that don't distinguish the features of the snake properly also limit the ability of people correctly identifying the differences between the two. I wouldn't be taking any chances if you're not sure...regardless of what been said.

Waruikazi has given you an easy way to identify the two. If it's smiling, you're in luck

 

[Waterrat]

Mister_Snakes, that's exactly what I was getting at and your analogy is pretty good. There are habitats here shared by eastern browns and coastal taipans. Some people would have to lift their tails to check their cloacas for a single or divided anal plate, whilst experienced people who have seen dozens of them will identify each of the two species at first glance, even without seeing the heads. Please don't ask me how.