What did I do wrong? Childrens Python help

[mike9771]

Hi,
I bought my first snake in August. It was a 3 YO male Childrens Python. I bought him from a lady who was running out of time. She had 2 snakes, including this one. She'd hand raised the Childrens from hatchling. It was fully grown, feeding well (though it had had a few months off over winter).
I bought the enclosure it had been in for 2 years. It is a simple wooden cabinet, 2 ft long. It has 1 cave hide, the water bowl. She was using Butchers Paper as a substrate which I followed suit with. Heating was on a timer and set at 27degrees (perhaps too cold - i see varied online temp ranges. Plus, this was the temperature he'd been set at when I bought it, so unless she sabotaged it just before I came...). To clean the tank i used the wipes she'd been using which were Pine-O-Clean disinfectant wipes (same brand). I spot checked for faeces daily and removed as soon as I saw them or the urine. I usually wiped down afterwards with the wipes. Water was always provided. He was a good eater with me - fed small rats (frozen and defrosted in a bag in warm water). Occasionally he wouldn't eat but seemed to be on a 10 day cycle. He shed twice in mid September and early December.
2 weeks ago the heat lamp bulb blew (I noticed as the snake was colder than normal). It would have only been off line for 12-24 hours tops (more likely 12). The snake seemed fine, and I immediately replaced the bulb. He since ate a rat.

He is located in our laundry (so as not to scare guests). There is a window in there and I keep the door open (it's external) as he's in front of the door. He gets afternoon sun shining in and often would bask in the sunlight.

Snake enjoyed being handled and I'd take him out for 20-30min a day every few days. He seemed unstressed and happy (though as my first snake i guess I have nothing to compare to).

Snake was doing fine and healthy up until 2 days ago. He became paler in skin tone and his eyes were a little milky (similar to his second shed). He'd rejected the rat which was what had happened before both sheds. I figured he was going into the shed cycle and left him alone. Today I found him dead.

My concern is: if I get another (costly) Childrens Python, will it die as well? what could I have been doing wrong and what should I fix? I'd figured buying the set up and snake and repeating should aid a beginner from making a mistake.

 

[hugsta]

The only real way of knowing what happened is to have a herp vet autopsy it, so the animal should be refrigerated and taken to the vet ASAP for best results. Other than that can be anyones guess really, 1 night of cold temps could allow a respiratory infection to take off, but other symptoms would have shown before the snake died. With these extremely hot days of late and only hvaing your heat source on a timer you could have overheated him and he could have died. Could have been a problem with the food, but this is quite rare. So, the only way is an autopsy which would tell you the probable cause.

 

[abnrmal91]

Mate sorry to hear hope you can work it out

 

[mike9771]

Sorry, on a timer meant - as the temperature drops it clicks back in and turns the heat lamp on until the temp is restored to the set temperature... (Sorry, my miscommunication... can't remember what it's called)
with the heat in recent days it may have overheated, but then other people would be losing their snakes yes?

I can't afford a snake autopsy... and then the cost of another snake, on top of the outlay.

as for tyhe last food he ate - it was the final rat in a batch of 5 bought from the pet shop... (the one he rejected was the first of a new batch from a different supplier/shop... but he didn't eat that)

 

[saximus]

Very sorry for your loss mate. I've read a couple of threads lately of snakes passing away and I think it would kill me to lose one of mine. From the sounds of it I'd say an autopsy is the only real way to find out what happened. I know you said you can't afford it but I thinks that's what it would need.
As for this happening again, it sounds like you did everything right. Maybe the temp could have been a little higher but this wouldn't have caused death. Mine have gone without heat for a day or two before due to blown heaters and it didn't cause any ill effects. Snakes are generally revered for being pretty hardy and easy to take care of so you shouldn't sweat over it happening again.
Anyway sorry again for you loss and I hope you can work out what happened.

PS You're thinking of a thermostat not a timer.

 

[thebluesnake]

My 3yr male spotted python is doing the same thing he went milky for a shed and now he is non active and has just been sitting in the same position for about 5 days but non milky. As soon as i read your post i went and checked on him so i moved him with the hook and there was only slight movment. i realy hope my male doesnt die.

ps sorry for the loss

 

[Elapidae1]

Did you ever check enclosure temps when he was getting his afternoon sun? Temps from windows and direct sun can raise the ambient temps in an enclosure quite drastically. Not sure if it's a problem but I also wouldn't use Pine o Clean wipes could be toxic and to heavily scented.
That being said sometimes even with good husbandry snakes have problems that are unseen and are not the fault of the keeper.

 

[jamesbecker]

sounds like youv done nothing wrong .. although i would up the temps, as been said lowish temps wouldnt kill a snake (unless it couldnt digest its food, did you feed it a few days prior?)

to the thebluesnake, your snake may be coming up to a shed, try misting it with water but also try upping the temps a bit

 

[Elapidae1]

Thermostat set at 27? did you ever actually check temps with a thermometer? Where was the probe situated?

Without having a go it sounds like a few things could be wrong to me.

 

[mungus]

never expose any snake in an enclosure to direct sunlight - can cook them on hot days.

 

[No-two]

Thermostat set at 27? did you ever actually check temps with a thermometer? Where was the probe situated?

Without having a go it sounds like a few things could be wrong to me.

I know some people that have had snakes a very very long time and only keep theirs on about 27degrees. He has some 20year old bhps and water pythons, nothing wrong with his. All kept cool since hatchies. The set temps don't mean anything if the snake can get close to the lights they will be fine.

 

[Elapidae1]

Originally Posted by steve1
Thermostat set at 27? did you ever actually check temps with a thermometer? Where was the probe situated?

Without having a go it sounds like a few things could be wrong to me.

I know some people that have had snakes a very very long time and only keep theirs on about 27degrees. He has some 20year old bhps and water pythons, nothing wrong with his. All kept cool since hatchies. The set temps don't mean anything if the snake can get close to the lights they will be fine.

The set temps mean the world depending on the thermostat and its position and the inherent variance of thermostat settings and actual temperatures. the OP has given no indication of true temperature only a thermostat setting and has also said the enclosure is getting afternoon sun.
It's no good saying oh yeah sounds like your doing everything right when there is obvious potential problems.

 

[mike9771]

Thanks for the advice. I don't have a thermometer, so that might be my next step. Maybe I should also close the door so that he gets light from the window but no late afternoon sun. The lady I bought him from said she liked to give him some sun so I thought that it would be good.
So it sounds like I overheated him? These 35+ degree days in Sydney might have done him in. What sort of temps would kill a snake?

Re the Pine o Clean wipes - that's what had been used for 3 years, and was what the breeder she bought it off used. He said the snake disinfectants were essentially over priced versions of the same thing.

And by all means have a go - I want to work out whether to get another snake or just give up. I really loved that little fella - but I don't want to make the same mistake twice. I'm a newbie to the hobby and have done lots of research but may not have read everything (there's also lots of contradictory stuff).

 

[saximus]

Mid 30s wouldn't be too much of a problem but if he was in direct sunlight then it would have been much hotter in the enclosure. Especially if there wasn't a big vent for air flow. Before getting another one you might want to have the enclosure set up as if there was a snake in it and keep a regular record of the temps to see what it was actually getting up to

 

[FAY]

Thanks for the advice. I don't have a thermometer, so that might be my next step. Maybe I should also close the door so that he gets light from the window but no late afternoon sun. The lady I bought him from said she liked to give him some sun so I thought that it would be good.
So it sounds like I overheated him? These 35+ degree days in Sydney might have done him in. What sort of temps would kill a snake?

Re the Pine o Clean wipes - that's what had been used for 3 years, and was what the breeder she bought it off used. He said the snake disinfectants were essentially over priced versions of the same thing.

And by all means have a go - I want to work out whether to get another snake or just give up. I really loved that little fella - but I don't want to make the same mistake twice. I'm a newbie to the hobby and have done lots of research but may not have read everything (there's also lots of contradictory stuff).

Pine O Clean wipes, there is no need for them. If you need to cut costs, a small amount of bleach (natural plain bleach) in a bucket of water to wash out the cage. Who knows, the pine o clean may have built up in his system over time.

 

[mike9771]

Yeah I'm doing that right now. It's currently at 35 degrees using my basic thermometer (like the ones in a fish tank), at 3pm on a hot day. I'd say it sounds like it has overheated with the recent weather spikes... I think if I get another one moving it inside would be better... that'll take a job to convince my wife? (Any advice for that ... just kidding).
There's 6 vents either side but not a lot of airflow on one side. It's been fine til now but I think it might have been the heat over the last 2 weeks... damn.

Pine O Clean wipes, there is no need for them. If you need to cut costs, a small amount of bleach (natural plain bleach) in a bucket of water to wash out the cage. Who knows, the pine o clean may have built up in his system over time.

OK, looks like I'll ditch the Wipes and just get a snake disinfectant

 

[saximus]

Yeah the 4-5 weeks from mid Jan to mid Feb are killers. Where are you in Sydney? I live in the Hawkesbury and the thermometer under out pergola was reading 43-44° the last few days. And that's in an open shaded area.
If you or your wife aren't happy about it being inside a garage is always a pretty good spot for them.

 

[Snowman]

Did you ever check enclosure temps when he was getting his afternoon sun? Temps from windows and direct sun can raise the ambient temps in an enclosure quite drastically. Not sure if it's a problem but I also wouldn't use Pine o Clean wipes could be toxic and to heavily scented.
That being said sometimes even with good husbandry snakes have problems that are unseen and are not the fault of the keeper.

My thoughts too.
You should definately get a thermometer to keep an eye on temps. $12 in the outdoor section at bunnings and it records max an min temps too.

 

[mike9771]

Yeah the 4-5 weeks from mid Jan to mid Feb are killers. Where are you in Sydney? I live in the Hawkesbury and the thermometer under out pergola was reading 43-44° the last few days. And that's in an open shaded area.
If you or your wife aren't happy about it being inside a garage is always a pretty good spot for them.

Milperra. The sunlight is very late afternoon, otherwise its shaded from the pergola cloth, but I reckon that I've cooked the poor fella.
Garage is an option but would be worried about the car engine adding to heat, plus there's no light in there. But if I get another I'll have it inside or i won't get it at all - can't risk that sort of thing happening (both for my sake and the poor creature).

 

[cement]

Without knowing anything about how it was kept... I really don't like the sound of pine o clean.