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There is a difference in approach to a pet snake that doesn't feed and a potential breeding stock. While I would love to give non-feeding juveniles to someone who would love to force-feed them and cherish them, I can't trust anyone (sadly) that if the snake gets to look alright later in live, they won't breed from it. I can't even trust people who promise to keep my native lines pure. They out-cross them just because they can (fun thing to do) or because they are after the money. ... Just have to live with it.
 
I never want to breed my snakes, I know its not all plain sailing and couldnt handle the stress breeders have to deal with. I have bred birds for years and thats enough for me. If a young bird is not feeding I try to help but sometimes you just know its time to give up and I would never allow a bird that had feeding problems or any other weakness to breed. I am against any weak species being allowed to breed, no matter how pretty, rare etc Would I ever have a snake force fed again ????? Hopefully I never have to find out
 
I am finding this hard to believe in many ways
In the other forum I was the first to mention possible genetic problems and that I would reluctantly put a hatchy down if need be on page 1
One of the best Jag breeders in England supported this and was flamed for another 11 pages

Yet here there is a great discussion starting that hopefully might throw a bit more light on a potentially touchy subject


clappy hand type thingies for everyone
 
It's commonly done and it's probably better than force-feeding pinkies because you can also add vitamin supplements, calcium, supplements, water, etc.. The same amount of stress to the snake I guess.
I went to a VHS meeting a few years back now and they had a guest speaker from venom labrotories in SA.
They had problem feeding snakes that they do this for. They pureed the food item, add supplements and put it
in a syringe with fish pump hose on the end to stick down the snakes throat. After a while some of the snakes
actually voluntarily bit down on the tube for a feed.
I purchased a jungle python of someone at the start of the year as a yearling. It has never fed well. He stopped
feeding all together after a little while. I let him go through winter and thought he may start feeding when it warmed
up again but he did'nt. He is now being force fed because he has lost so much condition.
I have tried it on all different types of food fresh killed and thawed to. I took him to the vet last
time I was home because he hadn't defecated after the first force feed, but he is a perfectly healthy snake according to them.
I am unsure if he got sold to me as a yearling when he wasn't, as he was a good size. I will keep persisting and give him away if he does come good.
I have no interest in breeding with him at all

Cheers Justin
 
I have a darwin that will only eat pinky mice . Nothing else tryed large mice but no go.. It is a pain but i just follow it up with something bigger
 
I can't trust anyone (sadly) that if the snake gets to look alright later in live, they won't breed from it.

Understandable, i was joking (sorta, i'd love one but i wouldnt expect you to do it).. It sucks that in a world like this it is so hard to trust people, if someone gave me a albino olive and told me i could only have it if i promised not to breed it then i wouldnt, if someone gave me a magic fish that granted 3 wishes and told me that the babies would grant wishes as well but no matter what you could not breed it, as hard as it would be, i wouldnt breed it. just the type of person i am.

I am finding this hard to believe in many ways
In the other forum I was the first to mention possible genetic problems and that I would reluctantly put a hatchy down if need be on page 1
One of the best Jag breeders in England supported this and was flamed for another 11 pages

I am quite enjoying a good debate about something im passionate about with out it turning into a full on fight. :)
 
This may get a bit emotional for some so please try avoid attacking others who have differing views

A pretty hot topic was recently discussed on another forum similar to this one

If you have a snake that will not eat without force feeding at what stage do you give up?

Why would you continue?
Why would you stop??

Some will say never... and thats cool
Some will say xxxxx....and thats cool

There will be some interesting replies I hope

That is a hard one longqi. I finally let my beautiful girl go earlier this year, after she went two years without eating. When I thought I finally broke through with her - she took two mice only to regurge them a couple days later.

I stopped trying when I realised she was defeated. She wasted away to skin and bone and had no energy left in her to right herself if she was turned over. I spent two years persevering because up until the the time she stopped she was a perfect eater, and in mint condition. I just couldn't give up on her, I knew she would start again, one day. But it turned out she was never going to get better. She had a swollen mass inside that had the appearance of freshly eaten feed. It was a nasty tumor.

I would never give up on any animal just because others think its not worth it. If there is just the slightest chance of turning them back, I will take that chance. But of course, if that means I am just prolonging their suffering, I have them put down, as I did with Bindy (my intergrade girl)

With a hatchy as a simple example you may never know whats wrong
Some just dont want to eat?
I had one of them. Eights old and still hadn't taken a feed I handed him over to Jamie, and even he couldn't get him feeding. The little snake ended up dying. Jamie discovered he had no tongue.

Question actually applies to all snakes but very applicable to breeders and hatchies and possible connections with genetic conditions.......?

I wonder how breeders go trying to feed siamese twins - where a snake is born with two heads. Do they fight over the food?

longqi even if someone could provide quality of life to such snakes like waterrat has mentioned, I don't know if it would be a good idea breeding from them. The trait could very well be genetic, then you end up with lots of troublesome feeders.
 
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In nature, somethings just aren't meant to survive. I believe a variety of foods and tricks should be attempted, maybe even one or two force feeds but after that, if the animal doesn't eat, it just wasn't meant to survive. Emotions aside (i do believe it wouldn't be an easy thing to euthanise) it is the natural way of things.

Forcing a snake to continue living when it wasn't supposed to is a selfish act. We can't know how the life is for said snake. Maybe the wake up every day feeling like absolute crap and mope about through the motions but certainly I wouldn't want to live a life of being force fed.

To add to my stance, I will mention that I'm a DNR and all my loved ones are aware that if something is seriously wrong with me, its time for me to go.
 
That's an interesting question. i got an adult snake that always fed brilliantly as a hatching and yearlong. since his first breeding season he went off food. he eats about 4-5 times a year now. Has done this for 3 years now.

Still basks, tongue flicks, drinks, passes urates and sheds. i am trying different enclosures every 6 months and various other tricks to rule out husbandry being the problem. vets couldn't find anything wrong. should he be euthanised? Id hate to end his life because of it, but often think it may be the best thing to do.

On another note, i have assist fed a hatchie for 6 months. once she was big enough to take a rat she has never looked back. many may have given up but i see it as my responsibility to try everything as a pet owner.
 
I believe that once the snake is starting to rely on force feeding to live, there is something up, like if it were a hatchy, its all g. but if it was force fed into sub-adulthood and wasnt taking any food itself, i would have a long hard think about its quality of life, and if it was suffering, i would do the humane thing and put it down. but if it was a perfectly happy, but not so healthy eating snake, i would keep going. however if the animal wasn't feeding for a long time, i would take it to a specialist and get an opinion, and then decide for myself what is best for the animal and its quality of life.
 
This is actually a good topic i think, good chance to get those who have bred for years to offer what they have experienced. Waterrat how do you find GTP to start feeding. And in everyone who is reading this, what would you define as one of the hardest to get feeding.

The hardest to get feeding is the one that doesn't want to eat. All clutches of all species will have great feeders and poor feeders. Although I have noticed that over the years as you hold back animals for breeders, you tend to keep the better looking hardier animals. I have found with my macs that after a few generations of keeping the quickest to get feeding that the offspring now feeds quite readily, vary rarely do I have a fussy feeder.
 
That's an interesting question. i got an adult snake that always fed brilliantly as a hatching and yearlong. since his first breeding season he went off food. he eats about 4-5 times a year now. Has done this for 3 years now.

Still basks, tongue flicks, drinks, passes urates and sheds. i am trying different enclosures every 6 months and various other tricks to rule out husbandry being the problem. vets couldn't find anything wrong. should he be euthanised? Id hate to end his life because of it, but often think it may be the best thing to do.

On another note, i have assist fed a hatchie for 6 months. once she was big enough to take a rat she has never looked back. many may have given up but i see it as my responsibility to try everything as a pet owner.

In the wild adult snakes may only feed very sporadically
If it is maintaining its condition just try to feed it until it looks like it will burst when it will feed
Feeding response should take over once its tasted first rat
Weve got a burmese who feeds every 3 months and thats what we do with her

It it is losing a lot of condition between feeds there must be something wrong
Impossible to guess what that may be with any accuracy
May have to find an Xray to rule out physical causes
 
In the wild adult snakes may only feed very sporadically
If it is maintaining its condition just try to feed it until it looks like it will burst when it will feed
Feeding response should take over once its tasted first rat
Weve got a burmese who feeds every 3 months and thats what we do with her

It it is losing a lot of condition between feeds there must be something wrong
Impossible to guess what that may be with any accuracy
May have to find an Xray to rule out physical causes

I agree that what we often expect our snakes to eat like in captivity is a little unnatural. I try to offer a varied diet at varied times.
 
I agree that what we often expect our snakes to eat like in captivity is a little unnatural. I try to offer a varied diet at varied times.


Offering varied diet is great
But when it does start to feed get another food item into it as well
We have 3 burmese of similar size
2 eat good feed every 3 weeks ie 2 big guinea pigs or 1 adult rabbit
Other one eats HUGE feed every 3 months, ie 3 or 4 rabbits
Gulps them down and doesnt move for 12 days
Growth rate and general health very similar
 
Well I imagine that in the wild they would chance across a 'nest' of food and eat everything that moved and then wouldn't know when their next meal is. Gee they look happy when they have had a huge feed though. So content that I'm nearly jealous haha. I think people often worry too much about a couple of rejected feeds. Yes if its a hatchie or is really starting to loose condition its time to pull out the bag of tricks but as is stated on this thread, not eating is normally a hallmark of bigger problems. Eg that tumour. Sad story, my condolences.

I also believe that sometimes they just aren't hungry. Have you ever just not been hungry?

There are some morphs that don't bother me too much. For example if a md and a coastal met in the wild they would likely mate and likely have healthy bubs, and those bubs would spread out. Some would die, some would live, but I doubt they would meet to line breed. some are pushing it too far. I think this constant line breeding etc makes for snakes that will have issues throughout their lives. Non feeding just being the tip of the ice berg.
 
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