2 snakes dead over night! What could it be?

[sharky]

I think I will, I might just go back to basics with a water bowl, hide and news paper as substrate and keep it in my room again as my Children's did fine in there.

Good idea mate
I'm sorry for losses, it's always hard losing scale babies RIP 2 gorgeous snakeys

 

[Dapple]

I think I will, I might just go back to basics with a water bowl, hide and news paper as substrate and keep it in my room again as my Children's did fine in there.

Jdawgg, sorry for your loss mate.

If you need any advice from housing to feeding to what substrate to use, I would use this forum. The guys on here are great and have heaps of experience and knowledge to help you out and no question is stupid on here.

You can PM me directly if you need advice also.

It sounds like you may need to address your housing first. There are many forum topics on here that can help you setup the right home for your species.

I also have lived far north and temperatures can be unpredictable some days. I would recommend installing a dimming day/night thermostat to control your UVB and heating, this way you can rest assure your temperature will adjust to the change of temp not only during the day, but from day to night. The beauty with a thermostat is if it too hot the heat lamp does not turn on at all, saving you power.

I would bring them inside, your animals are being exposed to other creatures that live outdoors, these creatures can carry diseases and parasites that my transfer to your animals.

Glass enclosures are not ideal and can intensify unwanted temperatures, investing in a properly ventilated enclosure is important to the animal and controlling temps and humidity. Also it keeps the enclosure from stickin.

It is best to create a hot and cool end of the enclosure, the animal will move around to regulate its body temperature which is important when the animal needs to digest its meal.

Feeding can be tough in many ways but it is best to feed or train to feed dead frozen foods from a reliable source. Thawed ofcourse. Dolittle farms website give great feeding advice from thawing to feeding what size and when. Check it out.

let us know if you need further advice, more than happy to help a fellow herpa.

chin up

 

[Jdawgg910]

I would be watching where the sun goes in that area to try and find if it was direct sunlight that has been the culprit.

You can PM me directly if you need advice also.

In the photo I posted the wall is to the exactly 90 degrees North to the right. So the sun shines a little in the early hours of the morning during sunrise (behind in photo) and only shines on the tanks a bit a bit after 6:30pm and goes away by 7pm. (In front.) During the middle of the day the sun is always further North of the house, which this wall is on the southern end, hence why it only gets sunrise and sunset direct light. So the sun is never on the other side of fence to the left or direct during the day.

I did put that in mind, but that failed. I think the fence being metal may of been enough to radiate heat all the way to the tanks despite having sufficient airflow coming through with the breeze. The tanks weren't warm either, MAYBE sitting at 28-30 degrees.

If I have any more questions, I'll definitely PM you BEFORE I do something I am unsure of that may prove fatal to my snake.

 

[ingie]

Buy a probe thermometer or one of those fancy thermometer guns, and actually measure the heat in the enclosure, instead of guessing. Every reptile keeper, especially relatively inexperienced ones, should have something like this and know what temperatures the basking spots and hides etc actually are, throughout the year. Look at the temperature when the sun hits and throughout the day, to know for sure if it gets too hot or not. A dark rock in the sun on a cool day in Melbourne can still get quite hot, so you might be surprised what even a few minutes of sun can do to a fish tank in Darwin. If you are going to house reptiles outside again where they may get some sun, you would be better off to put them in something that doesn't retain heat, like the cages posted earlier.

 

[champagne]

Op we keep our snakes outside up here. They have no heating systems, they are all locals. Interesting point about thermoregulation, differing temps because that has never been a problem with our guys. Ours are kept on our balcony and can move towards a sunny area or away but the temp differences quoted for best keeping are probably not attained. We don't have any problems with our guys. You really need to find out what went wrong with yours so it doesn't happen again. For starters I would be watching where the sun goes in that area to try and find if it was direct sunlight that has been the culprit. NB: I am not suggesting you put your Darwin back out there.

you keep your snakes in fish tanks on your balcony outside?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Young or small snakes need to be kept in controlled conditions, preferably with managed artificial heat at the right times (and protection from extremes of heat especially), because we have taken away almost any choice they have about self management.

Larger animals are not so sensitive to these influences, although extreme heat will kill them in 10 minutes if they are exposed. Keeping ANY reptile outside requires a very good understanding of the needs of these critters, and since reptile keeping became popular and expanded beyond the dedicated enthusiasts, few of the current-day keepers have any understanding of reptile physiology. I daresay that many first attempts at keeping outside eventually end in the death of the animal from exposure to influences it can't escape in a poorly located or poorly set up enclosure. Sudden death from inescapable heat, or a slower death from cold-induced RI would be top amongst the causes.

Your snakes didn't die from cold - that takes a while. 10 minutes of sun through glass is enough to damage them fatally in a one-off event.

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Young or small snakes need to be kept in controlled conditions, preferably with managed artificial heat at the right times (and protection from extremes of heat especially), because we have taken away almost any choice they have about self management.

Larger animals are not so sensitive to these influences, although extreme heat will kill them in 10 minutes if they are exposed. Keeping ANY reptile outside requires a very good understanding of the needs of these critters, and since reptile keeping became popular and expanded beyond the dedicated enthusiasts, few of the current-day keepers have any understanding of reptile physiology. I daresay that many first attempts at keeping outside eventually end in the death of the animal from exposure to influences it can't escape in a poorly located or poorly set up enclosure. Sudden death from inescapable heat, or a slower death from cold-induced RI would be top amongst the causes.

Your snakes didn't die from cold - that takes a while. 10 minutes of sun through glass is enough to damage them fatally in a one-off event.

Jamie

I guess a good comparison would be a closed up car in the sun, they heat up really fast.

 

[TheChondroCharm]

I guess a good comparison would be a closed up car in the sun, they heat up really fast.

If a dog dies in a hot car and it is reported massive fines and or animal ownership bans are implemented. Is the same applied for snakes and other animals? If you directly cause the death of an animal I reckon you should be held accountable 100%. Ignorance isn't an excuse. If your parents left you in a deadly situation as a child and death occurred they would be facing jail time..

 

[andynic07]

If a dog dies in a hot car and it is reported massive fines and or animal ownership bans are implemented. Is the same applied for snakes and other animals? If you directly cause the death of an animal I reckon you should be held accountable 100%. Ignorance isn't an excuse. If your parents left you in a deadly situation as a child and death occurred they would be facing jail time..

I do not like seeing any animal die, it was even hard for me to start euthanising my rats for food but I think the OP tried his best but was given some bad information. I am thinking that the OP has suffered a fair bit already with the loss of their reptiles that they clearly loved. I do not know the punishment someone may get for accidentally killing a reptile but I for one will not be wishing anything more happen to the poor poster and wish the wrath of the law be more focused on the people who purposely kill snakes with a shovel or similar item.

 

[TheChondroCharm]

I do not like seeing any animal die, it was even hard for me to start euthanising my rats for food but I think the OP tried his best but was given some bad information. I am thinking that the OP has suffered a fair bit already with the loss of their reptiles that they clearly loved. I do not know the punishment someone may get for accidentally killing a reptile but I for one will not be wishing anything more happen to the poor poster and wish the wrath of the law be more focused on the people who purposely kill snakes with a shovel or similar item.

Yeah that was not an attack or anything and I'm not going to report them haha more of a general question as I don't know the answer. I ask in that way though because even if someone had their first dog and got told its ok aslong as the windows are down a little. That's bad info. and if reported they would still be in trouble because saying "but someone told me so" isnt an excuse. just a curiosity. Not a flame

 

[andynic07]

Yeah that was not an attack or anything and I'm not going to report them haha more of a general question as I don't know the answer. I ask in that way though because even if someone had their first dog and got told its ok aslong as the windows are down a little. That's bad info. and if reported they would still be in trouble because saying "but someone told me so" isnt an excuse. just a curiosity. Not a flame

Fair point, domestic pets will always get more media attention and therefore more protection from harsh penalties because they are cuddly I guess. I bet that all of the people that turn up in the paper bitten by a venomous snake whilst trying to kill it don't even get any punishment. I think the media and the way it portrays the facts has a lot to do with things as well.

The penalty for killing a snake is a fine and jail. I am guessing that this is a worst case scenario and I have not heard of anyone actually getting charged for this. The penalty for killing a dog is also a fine and jail time. I was able to find an article about a man capturing and torturing a puppy and he apparently recieved the maximum penalty of three years in jail with parole after one year. He recorded the event on his phone and this was used against him.
Maximum term for torture of dog | Mackay Daily Mercury
I did find a fitting punishment in the USA where a woman set fire to a snake and the snake went into her house and burnt it down.

 

[moosenoose]

You're neighbors aren't spraying pesticides outside or anything like that? Just a thought.

 

[TheChondroCharm]

Fair point, domestic pets will always get more media attention and therefore more protection from harsh penalties becae they are cuddly I guess. I bet that all of the people that turn up in the paper bitten by a venomous snake whilst trying to kill it don't even get any punishment. I think the media and the way it portrays the facts has a lot to do with things as well.

The penalty for killing a snake is a fine and jail. I am guessing that this is a worst case scenario and I have not heard of anyone actually getting charged for this. The penalty for killing a dog is also a fine and jail time. I was able to find an article about a man capturing and torturing a puppy and he apparently recieved the maximum penalty of three years in jail with parole after one year. He recorded the event on his phone and this was used against him.
Maximum term for torture of dog | Mackay Daily Mercury
I did find a fitting punishment in the USA where a woman set fire to a snake and the snake went into house and burnt it down.

Which in turn brings up an argumennt of should the reptile community report cases of negligance as this could possibly be? - IN MENTIONING THIS IM NOT THROWING ACCUSATIONS EITHER SO DONT MISS-INTERPERATE MY POINT AS IT IS AN ISSUE TO TREAD CEARFULLY OVER - however if more cases were reported as licence conditions state that you must provide proper husbandry needs for the animal, and keepers make it their business to get the public awareness that more common animals receive, would the neglegance mortality rate drop as newbies and others alike then become fearful of sever punishment because an example has been set of a few.

I know ive gone a little off topic but it is a tanget that does relate and it is more of a rhetorical statement that doesn't need a reply, its just something to think about as the fight that may start would be pretty heated I assume and this isn't the thread for it..

 

[andynic07]

Which in turn brings up an argumennt of should the reptile community report cases of negligance as this could possibly be? - IN MENTIONING THIS IM NOT THROWING ACCUSATIONS EITHER SO DONT MISS-INTERPERATE MY POINT AS IT IS AN ISSUE TO TREAD CEARFULLY OVER - however if more cases were reported as licence conditions state that you must provide proper husbandry needs for the animal, and keepers make it their business to get the public awareness that more common animals receive, would the neglegance mortality rate drop as newbies and others alike then become fearful of sever punishment because an example has been set of a few.

I know ive gone a little off topic but it is a tanget that does relate and it is more of a rhetorical statement that doesn't need a reply, its just something to think about as the fight that may start would be pretty heated I assume and this isn't the thread for it..

Quite relevant topic for a new thread to be started on a reptile forum though and I would be interested in some of the opinions that would follow, the hard part would for people to show restraint so the thread would not get closed or removed.

 

[Darlyn]

you keep your snakes in fish tanks on your balcony outside?

Yes our balcony is outside. No we don't keep them in fish tanks, well, one is in a fish tank but he's a file snake and kinda likes a swim.

 

[Ramsayi]

My guess would be that at some point during the day the tanks got exposed to direct sunlight and they died through overheating.It wouldn't take very long for it to be fatal.