bearded x water dradon

[nzdragons]

IMO EWD's and Pogona sp. will not hybridise period. diff species, diff genus etc....
Eastern Beardies and Inland Beardies do though. Many of the B/Ds for sale in the UK are crosses. It is well known that hybrids are often infertile, e.g hosre X donkey produces sterile mule.
in beardies however the cross between barbata and vitticeps produces a large dragon with high fecundity- it has large clutch sizes. Some people are of the opinion that the 'german giant' strain available overseas is in fact a eastern/ central bearded dragon cross.

I would guess the female EWD will lay a clutch of infertile eggs. i have had female EWD's that have laid eggs and have never been in with a male, this is no problem. The eggs are infertile. Some aussie gecko's and asian butterfly lizards(agamids) are parthenogenic, meaning they can lay eggs that are fertile without having been mated- much like aphids.

 

[cris]

Being a differant genus doesnt mean they cant hybridise if you read the thread there are 2 examples and there are heaps more that happen overseas. The offspring may not be fertile themselves but the eggs they hatched out of obviously were.

 

[Ali]

alumba where r u located??

 

[alumba]

Right here are some pics and by looking at them i think she is too young to be gravid that’s if its a she and not a he.(this is the first time i have seen this animal since i left Darwin over 11/2
Years a go) this animal is not over fed but its tummy is pretty large

Please tell me what u all think is she too small to breed (i hope so it is no to late to seperate them)

I am in Adelaide at the moment but returning to Darwin next year. i miss herping and just going bush to much to stay here

 

[Splitmore]

Dragons will oftn produce eggs without being mated to. My bet is that she is gravid but the eggs won't be fertile.
Certainly no harm in throwing them in the incubator to see if they hatch but they are odds on to be infertile

 

[alumba]

so do u think at that size they can still get gravid

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

WOW, this thread deffinately confirms that there is not many knowledgeable members left here

No disrespect to anybody, just an observation.

 

[alumba]

WOW, this thread deffinately confirms that there is not many knowledgeable members left here

No disrespect to anybody, just an observation.

Or they haven’t red it yet or just don’t have time to post

And that is cool with me but when someone knowledgeable dose post and gives us the answer, we are seeking
Then there will be a whole lot of knowledgeable people out there

And no offence taken:lol:

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

Splitmore & nzdragons has given knowledgeable posts & answered your questions.
They wont cross breed & chances are if she is gravid she will lay an infertile clutch.

My observation was: that it is a shame that some of those that had posted to this thread simply had no idea & contributed pretty much nothing except confusement & uncertainty amongst yourself & other newbies to the hobby lol.

 

[Jason]

i agree chances are that they will be infertile, two different genus's so most likely will be infertile. but in saying that carpets have been breed to womas and produced babys. so imo the best luck you will most likely have is a small clutch with only several hatching and those that may hatch will be infertile and could never be breed from. imo if you get eggs you would be mad to through them, i would incubate them and see what happens, it may be against everything you stand for but to interesting to pass off. doesnt mean you have to sell them and if you do they most loikely cant be breed.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

i agree chances are that they will be infertile, two different genus's so most likely will be infertile. but in saying that carpets have been breed to womas and produced babys. so imo the best luck you will most likely have is a small clutch with only several hatching and those that may hatch will be infertile and could never be breed from. imo if you get eggs you would be mad to through them, i would incubate them and see what happens, it may be against everything you stand for but to interesting to pass off. doesnt mean you have to sell them and if you do they most loikely cant be breed.

Sorry but your post is pretty contradictory.
You say 2 genus's will more than likely produce infertile clutches, yet carpets x womas don't? (as well as many other species mind you) Than you say he would most likely have a small clutch that actually hatches (therefore not being infertile as 1st suggested) but be sterile mules that can not further breed in the future. And all of that was said with words like "most likely or more than likely" not actual scientific proof or 1st hand knowledge

Just to summarize,
They will not cross breed, I have kept them together as have hundreds of others with no hybridisation. ARP keeps them together with no problems as do featherdale & other zoo's. The infertile clutch referred to by some members has nothing to do with cross breeding of species, it is a known fact that lizards may produce clutches without ever being near a male (fake pregnancy)

 

[shamous1]

No offence J & C but you seemd to have sat back and offered no opinion at first. I would rather say I do not know what would or could happen than give a wrong answer to someone any day of the week.

I mentioned to him that if he was not sure then see the Vet. If you are the expert what is your opinion is she gravid or not?

People are here, on this site to help and assist where they can. They, IMO can offere advice. To put people down as you have in your post is a reason why people whether new or old are leaving this site. Why bag people for not having a definitive answer?

You'll probably have no one offering advice anymore for fear of being lable an inadequate info giver "By You"

JMHO

I think you owe some of the people and apology. I know they won't get one.

By the way I'm no expert but I guess I could learn from you.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

Sorry but I havn't bagged anybody & I made it clear that there was no disrespect meant. I was simply observing the fact that the majority of knowledeable Herpers have since vanished.

As for me offering my opinion there was no need to as Splitmore & nzdragons had given an answer, however I did eventually repeat the advice, BUT at 1st I just wanted to sit back & have a giggle at the amount of "im not sure but" and "I dont know but" posts first.

If you say I owe many people an appology than that is fine, I appologise for being honest with what I see happening in this forum.

 

[shamous1]

Your post

WOW, this thread deffinately confirms that there is not many knowledgeable members left here

No disrespect to anybody, just an observation.

This is what you said. Not too many knowledgeable members left here!!!!!!! I would say that's disrespectful. You may have chosen your words more carefully. What you are saying is that they don't know what they are talking about. Not everyone has the luxury of having Herp experience for many, years like yourself.

Like I said if people are not sure and they offer an opinion then they should not be condemned for it.

Just like the old saying, "Your damned if you do - And your damned if you don't"

Have a good one J & C:?

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

And this post clearly shows alot of members do not know what they are talking about. How can I possibly call them knowledgeable? No need to take things personal. There are alot of newbies who here who have read very little & had very little contact with Herps, therefore they know very little. I am not condemming them as you say, I just stated the obvious. Besides those that fit that description should be trying to learn not teach.

Should I have said there is only 5% knowledeable Herpers left?
Or perhaps there is only 15 knowledeagble Herpers left?
Maybe I should have said there is only a minute amount?
or a tiny bit? a squidgen? a particle?

You would have taken offence regardless of how I worded it, BUT there is no need to take offence Shamous, I have the same opinion as a stack of others (who mind you have quoted that ALL the knowledgeable Herpers are leaving & the site is being taken over by egotistical newbies telling everyone how it is in previous threads). I guess the fact that you posted your opinion & I didn't give you credit as a knowledeable Herper you feel belittled, but I assure you thats not the case, infact I feel you are 1 of the most knowledeable Herpers here atm (whether this has to do with alot of others leaving who knows)

 

[alumba]

I am grateful to every one that has posted to this thread knowledgeable or not I thank you all on your opinions and your information on this matter

Cheers
Matt

 

[shamous1]

Whatever. I could'nt care what someone thinks of me. I worked for 9 1/2 years copping all sorts of comments from a wide range of people so by now it's water off a ducks back.

Your comments only scare off people from having an opinion. It is obvious that there are many people leaving this site. Many good people in fact.

By the way just because someone has a low post count does not mean they are a newbie. I know a few very experienced herpers who have left this site and signed up under a different name and are checking to see what kind of info people give them.

People are leaving because things are getting away from herps and too political.

If I ever have any need for info I'll be sure to contact you.

 

[shamous1]

Thanks Matt

I am grateful to every one that has posted to this thread knowledgeable or not I thank you all on your opinions and your information on this matter

Cheers
Matt

Matt people will always try and help you. Some people are not as knowledgeable about some as others might be. Some people have an expertise in one type of snake andsome another. Or one type of lizard to another. Some people may have expertice in enclosure set-ups and temps. Some people vens or monitors. etc etc

It's the ones that don't want to help that are the problem. Or the ones that give you deliberate false information. These are the ones you have to worry about.

By asking everyone for their opinion you will be able to (hopefully) get a wide range of opinions upon which to base a satisfactory opinion and there for a conclusion that suits you best.

Have a good night Matt. oh and you too J & C.

 

[cris]

J&C if you have nothing to contribute why post so much in this thread? It seems to me yours are the least useful comments to be made.

It is clearly very unlikely that this will result in waterded dragons and noone said that that is likely. All i was pointing out is that just because animals arnt the same genus doesnt mean they cant produce offspring if everyone already knew that i guess my post was almost a useless as yours were. Im very sorry to upset you J&C :lol:

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

Sheez talk about twisting ones words lol

Who mentioned post count?
I don't recall ever assuming a new member to the site is also a new keeper in general.
My above post clearly states a newby as someone having read very little & having very little Reptile contact. Therefore knowing very little about Herpetology (pretty obvious really)

Regardless of all that, my post had nothing to do with newbies anyway, it was simply stated that the majority of knowledgeable Herpers have left and it is evident by the lack of correct answers (compared to previously) & Herp related topics lately, and for some unknown reason you have taken offence & tryed to put me on show as some sort of newby basher lol. I never condemned newbies they can post as much I don't know the answers and wrong advice as they like, but don't go getting upset because I point out the facts & state that an answer is misleading or in-correct. Just because I point out some misinformation does not mean I am attacking the poster. It dosn't even effect me in the slightest as I dont take any1's word as gospel but seek out the advice of those well respected expertise type & get numerous opinions on a subject. However I think it may effect those that do not have contacts or do not know much on the subject & if I clear the answer for them that is good imo.

As for these so called experienced Herpers PRETENDING to be newbies asking for advice just to see what sort of response they get, I would have to say thats pretty lame.

And cris now you take offence. Why is that?
I did contribute & gave a correct answer as did others.
Why you guys take it as if I called you a Herp idiot is beyond me. Just because I didn't say everybody was knowledgeable dosn't mean I called people dumb ok.

I really don't see how making the comment "that it seems most of the knowledgeable Herpers have left" can be seen as anything other than whats stated. Sure some members have a little know how, some have a little more & some have a fair bit but the real knowledgeable 1's with years of experience in captivity & in the field have seemed to have parted. Why is this not acceptable to say?