Cat Thread - This is how you do it.

[longqi]

The only real way to show the damage cats have done and continue to do
is to fence off an area with cat proof fence
I had 47 acres well fenced and 23 acres that was open to any predators
Was mixed land being mostly on sand but some good old forest in the fenced section with 2 good elevations
I put a koala ladder between two gums to give them access over the top on each side
That section was like the Garden of Eden after 3 years

The other 23 acres was too tough to fence effectively and remained pretty devoid of life in comparison

 

[mungus]

No probs here mate, good to see its on your property.

No offence................but if i saw that cat in the native bush, it would be bowshot if i could get close enough.
I have had cats and i do like them, but thats no excuse for allowing them to do what they do best and thats hunt !!

 

[cement]

It is my personal experience, that 100% of cat owners that i have met, through being called out by them to pick up an injured or dead reptile, see it as "oh well, poor reptile."

They understand that their cat has just injured or killed something, that is why they ring us, they feel bad about it.That and the fact that they are usually to scared to touch the reptile and so they call on someone else.
But they have absolutely no idea about ecology or how native animals play a role in the ecosystem. In this regard they are ignorant. There are no laws regarding cats as far as how to keep them goes. (local council, here anyway) only have a one page "guide' on how to be "responsible", on their website that no-one looks at anyway.

It is quite mainstream to be fearful of any lizard bigger then a water skink, and very mainstream to be fearful of snakes, even the small elapids, so there is a huge problem just getting these people to even feel compassion for these animals.
There is no point being confrontational to the cat owner at these call outs. However it makes you feel. The owners will listen and agree, but will do nothing more. They have called you, you came and sorted the poor reptile, and the sooner you are gone the sooner they can start to feel better.
I have been doing this a long time and it is seriously like banging your head against a brick wall. Hoping to educate cat owners is the same as hoping to educate people about snakes. It won't be happening any time soon. I seriously doubt that i will ever see an improvement in the way MOST people look after their cats in my lifetime.
One of the worst cases (for me anyway) was being called to persons house who's cat just dragged in a YFWS and the person was an ex member of the same wildlife organisation as me, and she had four cats , all out, and as i was leaving a fifth came back into the yard from across the other side of the railway lines. Here is an educated person (she knew exactly how to treat the snake) still doing nothing about her cats.
I don't blame the cats, I blame the people who own them. But you can't shoot the people!

But if there are cat people here and who are fair dinkum, lets see who here does the right thing.

How many cat owners on here or who will read this thread, keep their cats in cages, or , never let their cats out of the house??

Cats will hunt and kill just as often by day as they will at night, so there is no excuse for only locking a cat up at night.
The only responsible manner in which to keep a cat is caged. The cage can be as big as you like but it must not be able to get out.
Don't believe that just because you don't see your cat kill wildlife that it doesn't happen, because a lot of my call outs are first timers, where the owners have never thought the cat would do it, and were shocked and horrified.

Cats are so mainstream that keeping them caged is considered offensive to many people. This is a thought pattern that cat owners have to accept and learn to see the other side, another perspective.
Local councils and NPWS should push this more, not leave it up to wildlife organisations, we are not cops or rangers, we just clean up the mess. If NPWS rangers went to cat groups... then they might take notice especially if fines were on offer. But what is the point, there is no law to say how cats should be kept. So you can't say it,....do you see?

 

[hypochondroac]

As an example - I know somebody who recently ran over their own cat because it was sitting in their drive way. Two costly operations later and this cat still gets to sit on the drive way.

 

[RickLeekong]

as far as im concerned, feral animals should be destroyed on sight, i know there alive but they are playing havoc with our delicate natives and there environments, i honestly don't give a ****, but they should be humanely destroyed without agony and pain. If it were someones pet then you have no right to do so, because its somebody's property and loved pet, there is a difference.

 

[Darlyn]

Anyway, to all the redneck cat killers out there, just imagine that the owner may be a young child. Imagine how upset they'd be if they knew you took their beloved pet, I used to own cats and I know if someone killed my cat I would be mortified, and furious at the person.

Just imagine the lizards, skinks, birds parents who are also upset at their offspring be tortured to death.

I have no idea why some people still kill every cane toad, cat, fox, rabbit they see when clearly they have a well enough established population that no matter how many we kill at this stage they will still exist here

Interesting course of action "blah just leave it be, it's happened now"

 

[FAY]

Ummmm CATS
I had a cat for all it's life. I lived in an apartment. It had never been outside.

When we moved here, we had no intention of getting a dog. But guess what?
Every neighbour had a dog, so all the neighbourhood cats would congregate in OUR yard. They would pee all around the cars.Leave cat poo everywhere and get into screaming matches in the middle of the night on the verandah right outside our bedroom. SO we had no choice but to get a dog. No more cats after that.

Some cat owners, think it is their god given right to let their animals wander. They would be the type that if pussy goes missing, they would not give a rat's pertuzzi.
Let's face it, if they actually gave a rats....they would not let their animal wander, to be killed by dogs or get run over and any other fate they may come in contact with.
They just go out and get another one. The cat is just disposal.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

oh i lovvve cat threads.Intersting if you go on youtube they wont show vids of cats being killed,but there many of snakes actually being put to death by cats,people etc

 

[Jeannine]

MAN is responsible for MORE environmental destruction and causing native animal extinction then any 'feral cat' alive on the planet

three words..........palm oil plantations

one word..........primates

MAN also rips out native trees and vegetation to make way for houses for more humans thus causing extinction of more native animals then a hundred cats that could move into those new houses could possibly cause but hey it makes people feel good to lay all the blame on cats

 

[KaotikJezta]

I love how humans sit in there house consuming goods that are produced and transported in a manner that causes vast amounts of environmental damage and then have the nerve to blame animals for all the destruction. Honestly, if you really care about the wildlife, give up your house, go bush and take only what you need otherwise you are a way bigger problem than any feral animal, all of which were ironically introduced by humans.

 

[longqi]

^^^^
Totally agree that man is the major environmental destroyer

BUT
Palm Oil Plantations in Indonesia now have to get an EIS done before jungle can be cleared
So there is some hope for the future there
Most primates are Cites listed and huge amounts of money are being spent on them and protecting their habitat in both Africa and Asia
So there is virtually zero chance of any primates becoming extinct
Except of course for the smaller types such as the Tarsus [sic] which is just the right size for a cat to enjoy playing with
But primates are not a usual target for any feral cat
Primate protection/rescue has to be one of the biggest rorts on Earth

To give some indication of the damage feral cats can do you just have to look at NZ
40 species of flightless birds extinct since the introduction of cats and humans
The reason there were so many flightless species is because there were no natural predators of non-avian species

Being totally honest maybe 16 of those species were also victims of habitat destruction as they lived in areas where people settled
But the others lived in what is still fairly pristine country

American researchers released 2 cats into what had been a cat free area
The cameras attached to their collars recorded an average of 28 kills per day for one and 53 per day for the other
By far the majority of these were various insects and small lizards or frogs etc
Most were not eaten

Feral Cats are the animal kingdoms equivalent of man
Predators without limits

 

[Nighthawk]

So than we are agreed that two things need to happen here.
One: There need to be laws in place for cat owners. It is illegal to allow a dog to roam unattended, it should be the same for domestic cats. Cats *should* be registered and all possible steps taken to control their movements, desexed if domestic (with appropriate aid given to those who can't afford it, as much as I see this action as an enabling of people who ultimately cannot afford a pet and shouldn't get one, one must face the fact that people who shouldn't have animals get them every day and stopping this is like nailing jelly to a wall). People need licenses for most pets, cats should not be expempt; particularly considering the damage they can cause. One booklet or webpage on 'recommended' keeping methods is not cutting it; there needs to be an actual law and standard of care, with appropriate prosecution if these standards are not met.
Two: With regards to local/national fauna there needs to be an education standard in place, with special focus on what threats common domestic pets can potentiall pose if not housed properly. It astounds me that in a country as rich in fauna as Australia is, this has not been done. Growing up in New Zealand we were constantly taken out on day trips and camps, educated about local fauna, survival, what threats pets could pose, what we could,should or must do in the bush either in emergency situations or when taking a leisurely trip. Granted it's a lot more complicated than 'stay warm, don't move, suck on supplejack for moisture' here, but it's also a lot more dangerous and that alone should call for educating children on basic survival methods and the damage one can cause without even knowing it. Start young.
Trapping is not going to do much, education and laws will. I like Lonqui's method; warning, action, consequence.
So what are we going to do about it? SHOULD we bicker amongst ourselves, argue the best method to trap or control the problem as it occurs, or should we work toward securing the future? Surely there are enough people, online, at herp meetings around Australia, even general public who, while not having a personal interest in reptiles, have an interest in maintaining Australia's unique fauna and natural habitats, to flood local goverments with a call for real steps towards this aim?
Emails, petitions, letters, public meetings to raise awareness... get it in the public eye, get people interested and you may make a real difference. Dealing with the problem piecemeal does little to stem the flow of ignorance.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Trapping does indeed make a difference if consistantly done. For an example in a one year period we trapped and had put down 25 cats, this season we have only seen one and trapped none ( I am sure there a few more than one getting around still ). The trap is only set up in my front yard but clearly it has made a big difference to the overall numbers roaming our street.
We are now starting to see far more lizards and even the occasional wild snake in our yard and believe or not a young quoll on one occasion ( would have loved know where that came from ) . I certainly don't like killing cats ( infact I really hate it ) and have no doubt I have killed domestic pets among the total but unfortunately we see no other alternative. At least I now no longer have turtles pawed out of the pond and aren't finding chewed on bearded dragons and blue tongues.
Personally I think what the first poster did was a good move as one would expect the owner would have taken the matter more seriously ( assuming of course council found who that was ).
I think it would be a proper however to warn the local neighbours that you indeed to set traps before doing so. One so they can take preventative action or two, know where their cat might be should it go missing. In our case we didn't, but our street has alot of drunken early settlers who don't even look after their pets in the first place

 

[Colin]

I feel sorry for the animals in question that get destroyed because of ignorant neglectful owners but educating somebody who has had an outside cat all their life is as easy as getting blood from a stone.

Cats are so mainstream that keeping them caged is considered offensive to many people. This is a thought pattern that cat owners have to accept and learn to see the other side, another perspective.
Local councils and NPWS should push this more, not leave it up to wildlife organisations, we are not cops or rangers, we just clean up the mess. If NPWS rangers went to cat groups... then they might take notice especially if fines were on offer. But what is the point, there is no law to say how cats should be kept. So you can't say it,....do you see?

good post cement.. yes it would be much better to have NPWS rangers going to cat groups to try and educate them. and yes hypochonroac it wont be easy.. but I think its a move in the right direction. It wont happen overnight and may take a long time but with constant education peoples attitude may change.. Laws should be brought in to cover the responsible keeping of cats.

If you look at smoking (for an analogy) years ago people never thought or knew it was as bad as it was. there was smoking on buses, trains, taxis, shopping centres etc.. smoking smoking everywhere.. but public education on the dangers of smoking and dangers of second hand smoke led to a change in community thinking and laws were brought in.. and today people still smoke but most observe the laws and dont do it in the places they are not supposed to. Its taken some time for this to happen and maybe a similar push for the responsible housing of cats could change the communities attitudes over time and with some laws and regulations maybe this situation will change. some NPWS adverts on tv and in the media with pictures of beautiful native wildlife - dead from cat predation would horrify most people. but what they dont see they dont think about or care about. NPWS need to get in peoples faces about these issues and be relentless until some action is taken and some laws introduced.

probably not a great analogy but all I could think of at 5am..

 

[Jeannine]

Palm Oil Plantations in Indonesia now have to get an EIS done before jungle can be cleared
So there is some hope for the future there

as we all know its very easy to grease the palms of anyone involved in making those decisions to 'jiggle' the figures and that environmental damage is and will continue to affect the animals living in the area, the rainforests of the Amazon are another example of mans greed in destroying native to the benefit of man, goodness knows what has been lost in them.

Nighthawk, my cats are desexed, microchipped AND registered with my council, they do NOT roam because i enclosed half my verandah off for them and they go in and out of the house into it for sun, etc........a lot of pet owners do try to do the right thing by their pets and be responsible and would love nothing better then to desex them however a lot of vets will NOT let you pay them off and charge way to much to fix your animals so 'some' of the blame should be laid with them. if they can afford to do them cheaper on 'desexing days' why cant they be fixed that cheap every other day of the week

so tell me what else should i be doing in regards to MY cats, i already jump thru enough hoops owning them

i know feral cats do a lot of destruction, i know feral cats are just that feral however people forget they were already feral before man decided to domesticate them and have them as companions so they are in fact only doing what they did for millions of years BEFORE we interfered

i get people dont like them, i get some people would love nothing better to do then to grab one and wring its neck, fill it with lead, put it in a bag and drown it, but look in the face of a child who loves her moggy and tell me that that child deserves it? education of that child is needed so she/he will grow up to be a responsible pet owner but dont murder their much loved pet

all of you who would happily kill a cat answer me this........if you WERE a cat lover and did the right thing by your animal and mother nature how would you feel coming in here and reading comments from cat haters about how your much loved pet and companion should be killed, drowned and murdered

colin ive seen some of the ads you refer to, i dont think its a case of not thinking about it or not caring but we are use to violence of all sorts and have become desensitised to it, i mean its on our news and in our faces all the time and in fact we are now raising a community of children who play violent games on their computers, etc who are totally totally desensitised to death and im sure a lot of younger ones think if they 'kill' a friend/family member etc they can simply end the 'game' and that person will come back to life, they are totally detached from reality so seeing dead native animals in front of a cat isnt even worth nothing in their already violence overloaded brains but short of killing every single cat around what is the solution? especially when you do have irresponsible owners?

also what is the difference between cats attacking/killing wildlife and dogs doing it? my point!!! i seen a post in here about a bluey being attacked by a dog but not one member demanded that dog be hunted down and killed.......why? oh yes i am owned and at the beck and call of two doggies again desexed, chipped and registered plus never allowed to roam etc but just curious why thats all im betting if it had been a cat the reaction of members would have been totally different

 

[Colin]

as far as dogs go.. I thought you had to keep them contained on your own property and when outside your property on a leash. fences keep most dogs on their own property but cats climb and can roam especially at night when nocturnal animals and reptiles are about.. dogs can do damage to wildlife when let roam free but no way to the extent that cats do in my opinion.

If you keep your cat correctly housed and not allowed to roam thats great and I dont think anyone has a problem with cats housed correctly that dont present a danger to wildlife.. Its the other 95% (guesstimate) of cat owners that dont do this that are the problem and who need to be educated..

 

[user 23122]

Forget about blaming cats people greedy mining corporations are the biggest risk to not only Australia but the world. Take a look at what's going on in Gladstone lately if they have their way and keep using cheaper risky practices our continent will be well and truly stuffed in twenty years another example is the amazon jungle don't worry about laying blame on the poor old puss. In saying that I think we should stop keeping cats and instead have tiger quolls as family pets

 

[Colin]

Forget about blaming cats people greedy mining corporations are the biggest risk to not only Australia but the world. Take a look at what's going on in Gladstone lately if they have their way and keep using cheaper risky practices our continent will be well and truly stuffed in twenty years another example is the amazon jungle don't worry about laying blame on the poor old puss. In saying that I think we should stop keeping cats and instead have tiger quolls as family pets

definitely mining corporations are a huge threat, as is general habitat destruction but feral introduced species and cats roaming the country killing wildlife are also threats to our wildlife..

I support keeping quolls and other native marsupials if we're able to.. maybe even responsible people keeping and breeding tassie devils? would be great to see their numbers increase on a large scale and some re-intoduced back to tassie if possible. Im sure maggie would love to comment on this where are you maggie?

 

[snakeluvver]

My mum refuses to get a cat unless its an outdoor cat as she believes they need to be let outdoors.
Im really dissapointed in her, I tell her how much damage they do to the environment, as well as all the dangers to the cat (venomous wildlife, feral dogs, cars ect) but she wont listen :|

 

[saximus]

My mum refuses to get a cat unless its an outdoor cat as she believes they need to be let outdoors.
Im really dissapointed in her, I tell her how much damage they do to the environment, as well as all the dangers to the cat (venomous wildlife, feral dogs, cars ect) but she wont listen :|

I agree with her. I think they should be let out to display their natural behaviours. This is why I'd never own one myself - I'd either feel guilty for having to lock it up or for the damage it was doing to wildlife