Cross & hybrid bred Pythons. BRING IT ON!!!!

[Jones of the Jungle]

This thread is my two cents worth about cross breeding, after I started reading a thread titled "Egg Thief" I found myself reading about a vicious debate. It took me 11 pages to finally get to the end now it's my turn.

I have 5 pythons, they have been sold to me as: 1 Proserpine Coastal Carpet Python, 1 Murray Darling (SA form) Carpet, and 3 Black and Gold Jungle Carpets. I use the wording "sold to me as" because I have placed my trust in the suppliers. I like to think that I do have pures/pedigrees or whatever you want to label them as. Due to the reputable business I bought them from I think I am pretty safe. But I would feel pretty bitter if I had been lied to in any way. In Feb I bought a Border Collie puppy from a petshop and I paid $400 for him, now I know thats alot and I could of got it cheaper elsewhere, but I fell in love with him. He looked like a "pure" Border Collie, but as he has grown up he looks nothing like a pure, the only thing he has going for him is his markings, the rest of him looks mongrel. Don't get me wrong I love him to death, but I'm a bit upset that I paid all that money. I would imagine being sold a Python as a "pure'" and then realising some 6 - 8 months later it was a "mongrel" would be very upsetting.

My aim with the Jungles is to one day breed the most purest and sort after form possible, which from what i have researched is rich gold with solid jet black markings. Now my Jungles don't look like that now (still young & developing colours) and they may not, but I'm hoping that they carry the gene that will produce some nice offspring. I plan to do this through selective pairs, and in some cases putting offspring back with the parents, or even putting offspring together that have the same father but different mother.

What I'm curious about is if some people agree with crossing sub species together, what are their thoughts on interbreeding??? Just keeping in mind that interbreeding happens regularly in the wild with ALL species eg. Loins, Tigers and bears OH MY!!!!:shock:

Pleae keep in mind that I am not opening a discussion that is done to death, I am just interested in other aspects of the debate which have not been covered yet. And please try to keep it all friendly, I value everyones opinion, and I think we all have something important to contribute.

I look forward to hearing from all of you.

 

[cyclamen]

Good stuff. hope u can breed gorgeous jungles.

 

[falconboy]

First and only thing I will say about it mate, is $400 for a 'purebred' Collie from a pet shop in particular is in fact as cheap as chips (try $1500 or so in our local pet shop franchise) (which is possibly why he ended up mongrel'). But hey, I have 2 mongrels and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Magpie]

I've got over 1000 hybrids here, including some that are intergeneric.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

It amuses me that people get offended with mongrel dogs feeling they are inferior to pedigrees (I agree they are) but get excited over mongrel Reptiles that they some how think are superior.

Just a general statement not aimed at anybody in particular.

 

[Hoppa1874]

i wish u all the best wif ur jungle breeding also.. wot i love is the beautiful markings and colors that u can end up wif from this hobby... truely beautiful snakes a lot of them are

 

[stokedapollo]

hybrids

I've got over 1000 hybrids here, including some that are intergeneric.

you have over 1000?

 

[Magpie]

Yup

 

[Australis]

Yeah, plenty of Hybrid breeders will create these mongrels, then sell them off as pure, when they get grief about the ugly beasts they have created.........

 

[Jones of the Jungle]

Don't get me wrong I love all my animals, with the dog though, it's not so much that he is in fact a mongrel, but that he was sold to me as a pure bred. And I have also seen in my local paper people advertise pure bred border collies for less than that.

But my question is if cross breeding reptiles is sooo bad, then what do people think about interbreeding???

Personally I'm not for cross breeding because of the the fact in ten years time to buy what we're referring to as pures will be nearly impossible. It also states in the Sth Australian Basic keep and sell license that it is infact illegally to cross breed, I have read this myself and have spoken to a pair of breeders with 12 years experience. As Steve6610 kept saying in the "egg thief" thread, that wildlife permit system in Qld says to record all Morelia Spilota's on the one page, same goes for here in Sth australia, but that doesn't mean I am going to abuse this technicallity and start purposly breeding freaks. I also agree that Intergrades are different to what we all call cross breeds.

 

[rexs1]

lions and tigers breeding together????????????????????????????????

 

[Jones of the Jungle]

Yes loins and tiger do breed together in captivity, they're either called Ligers or........ buggar I can't remeber the other name they give them but it is a mix between Lion and Tiger.

BUT thats not what i was saying, I was saying that INTERBREEDING happens in the wild in all SPECIES. In more simpler terms: A mother python and son python breed. A father loin and daughter loin breed. a brother tiger and sister tiger breed. A grandfather bear and granddaughter bear breed. etc etc etc!
INTERBREEDING IS RELATED PAIRS, NOT DIFFERENT SPECIES!

 

[JungleRob]

lions and tigers breeding together????????????????????????????????

A LIGER!!! (nevermind the fact they're found on different continents)

 

[ad]

Jones, reptiles can interbreed up to 7 generations with zero problem,
I havent personally done it but read many times there are no problems,
I have a daughter who will meet her dad next year - I have no qualms about doing it at all, recessive traits near depend on it.

Totally different scenario to cross breeding and mammal breeding.
Cheers
Adam

 

[Jones of the Jungle]

Please list a small example of what you own Magpie (if you feel comfortable in doing so), I may not plan to intentionally breed cross/hybrids myself, but I am still very interested, especially in the intergeneric's you said you have.

 

[munkee]

Magpie is joking for one......

There is inbreeding (family related) and inter-species breeding (differing genus).

 

[munkee]

why is inbreeding okay for reptiles and not mammals like cats, dogs etc?

I am curious as to why people consider one okay and the other not.

 

[dwc995]

interbreeding reduces the genetic variance within a population making them more susepticle to disease, physiological deformities etc.. I would think it is not a desirable breeding technique (in general).

 

[Jones of the Jungle]

A LIGER!!! (nevermind the fact they're found on different continents)

Now I've had a few drinks this afternoon, but I can still read!!! This is the 2nd time I've had to explain myself due to people not being able to read properly.:x


Please go back to the post that you are referring to jungleRob and have a good read!!!
I said that yes Lions and Tigers do breed together in CAPTIVITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That word again for those that missed it: CAPTIVITY

They may originate from different continents, but we keep both loins and tigers in the one zoo, and both in the one travelling circus (circus's with animals are BAD).

Its just the same as a diamond python breeding with a Jungle python both come from different states with completely different temperatures. Now if someone tells me you keep a diamond python at the same temperature as a Jungle python, then maybe they should look up a nasty condition called Diamond Python Syndrome.

 

[Jones of the Jungle]

interbreeding within cats is waht has developed the breed referred to as "Devon rex" cat, which is a result of interbreeding again and again and again.

I wouldn't think it would be bad for dogs or any other mammal to interbreed ONCE. but like DCW said about being more susepticle to disease would be right after an extended strain of interbreeding. extended interbreeding would probably happen in the wild, but in the wild there is a law called survival of the fittest.

I don't intend to do repeated interbreeding, all I plan to do is keep maybe my best looking female from a clutch and put her back with the father, and then from the clutch that they produce keep the best looking one out of that and buy in a new bloodline (the best money can buy) and put it with the kept interbred offspring. I don't want to jeapordise the snakes health in any way, but if for example I had a great looking female produce a great looking male, then wouldn't it be wise to put them together to try concentrate that gene they have.
When my snakes do breed and I do sell the offspring, I plan to provide as much family history to the buyer of that snake, so as they do not buy a male/female pair from the same clutch without knowing it (interbred or not).