Frozen 5m python put down

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Not condoning what the guy did but there would have been absolutely no suffering to that animal what so ever.
Putting reptiles in the freezer is generally accepted as the most humane way to euthanase them. Being ectothermic their metabolism basically just slows down and they simply go to sleep. Most reptile keepers use the freezing method to put animals out of their misery that cannot be saved( dog attacks etc).
 
When was the last time u were frozen splitmore?

Not condoning what the guy did but there would have been absolutely no suffering to that animal what so ever

How the hell would you know???? Dont tell me an animal that relies on external heat will not suffer through lack of it! B*llsh*t !! :evil:
 
Splitmore is right. Freezing is accepted as the most humane way to euthanize a reptile. My anger comes from the lack of need to euthanize the animal in the first place.
 
My anger comes from the lack of need to euthanize the animal in the first place.

He wanted it taxidermied. You have to kill them first.
 
Freezing is accepted as the most humane way to euthanize a reptile

That may be so, it dosent mean it it wont suffer. Theres no way to measure pain from temp extremes is there? Ok for for folk to say it wont suffer, but the snake cant tell you different!
 
He wanted it taxidermied. You have to kill them first

Ya, that's not what I'd call a good reason to have it killed.

I didn't say that the snake didn't suffer at all when placed in a freezer, but biologically speaking, they're systems shut down quick and they simply go to sleep.
 
Instar,
Not going to get into an arguement with you, go and do a bit of research and maybe talk to a few vets as well.
What about wild reptiles that spend up to 6 months of the year in a practically frozen state while hibernating. Do you think that they suffer all winter?
 
I didnt ask you to argue with me splitmore, you took that on yourself, I simply stated my opinion and you didnt like it, Tough!
Were talking about a python, none of them get anywhere near frozen in winter, some amphibians do but not pythons.
I dont give a damn whats "generally acceptable", until its proven they dont suffer, i continue to beleive its very likely.
Folk used to think cutting a snakes head off with a shovel, was quick, painless and "generally acceptable". Sadly some still do. There may yet come a day when advocates of freezing to death are proven just as mislead.
I personally think a correctly administered dose of pentibarbital (green dream) Has the least probability of causing physical suffering for any animal, bar the initial injection.
 
go and do a bit of research and maybe talk to a few vets as well

And you'll find freezing is not an acceptable method of euthanasia.
 
If you read that link I posted, it said freezing using liquid nitrogen?and only for very small animals. That animal was partly frozen and there is no way that that is not painful.
Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if freezing is not the most common form of euthanasia, is quick for the person and the animal does not appear to suffer.

If I every need to put down a python, I'm paying the vet for an injection.

http://www.anapsid.org/euth.html
 
Good link Fuscus, I reccommend folk read this page~

http://www.anapsid.org/herppain.html

and this~

Reptiles Don't Feel Pain...Do They?
Perhaps veterinarians and health care scientists have created the perception that reptiles don't feel pain. Historically, we just threw the poor cold-blooded beasts into the refrigerator until they were immobile enough to work on. We deluded ourselves that since they didn't respond much, it must not hurt much. Lack of response is not the same thing as lack of pain. Refrigerating herps is a practice that we now realize to be barbaric and counter-productive - it should never be used. Indeed, we now keep reptiles very warm during surgery, playing the patient on recirculating heating pads for procedures and in warm incubators post-op. We want the reptile's physiological processes at their peak to optimize immune response, drug metabolism, and healing.

We don't know nearly enough about pain perception in reptiles. For instance, why is the incidence of thermal burns so high? Most reptile veterinarians have seen literally hundreds of third- and fourth-degree burns from malfunctioning hot rocks and poorly placed basking lights. One theory is that reptiles are so primitive that, by the time the burn is perceived, they don't know the appropriate response. While I don't like this theory, there are some components which may be accurate. To begin with, the reptile was able to perceive warmth as was attracted to the hot rock. Why then did it fail to perceive that the hot rock was becoming too hot? This is an alien thought for us, as we have a well-developed withdrawal reflex. If we touch anything perceived to be too hot, we withdraw immediately and reflexively, without further mental processing. This is such a strong reflex that you would be hard pressed to force yourself to touch such a hot object.

One theory is that the nerve endings (receptors) that are able to sense heat are different from those that sense pain. Perhaps the pain receptors are poorly developed because, during evolution, objects hot enough to burn are uncommon in the wild and such receptors therefore aren't needed. One would then lack a burn/pain withdrawal reflex.

Another theory is based more on learning than evolution. If the reptile doesn't associate touching an object with a certain response, perhaps it doesn't realize that moving will help. Perhaps this "learning association" theory is at work with ball pythons and boas that remain passive while a rodent perches on its coils and chews away at their flesh and bones. Could these snakes have learned that rodents are prey but don't associate them with pain?

There is a lot to learn but when all is said and done, we know that reptiles perceive pain. This is a given.
 
The 2000 AVMA Panel on Euthanasia is the industry standard. You can Google for it, or if the mods can create a suitable folder in the download section i'll upload the PDF version.
 
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I do note, beware of alot of what you read from Melissa Kaplan. She has quite the bias when it comes to our hobby.
 
kevyn said:
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I do note, beware of alot of what you read from Melissa Kaplan. She has quite the bias when it comes to our hobby.

This is very true. :?
 
I am aware of your opinion of MK, but are yet to find anything too rabid on her site. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough. :)
What she does go on about is the sale of baby giants to unsuspecting people, something I happen to agree with. Unfortunatly it seems Americans won't accept regulation, so they end up with outright bans.

And I also have quite a bias when it comes to our hobby.
 
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