frustrated with 1st feed/shed of hatchlings

[andyscott]

These are the neddles I use, the scan isnt great.
The brand is Quill and the size is 2.75mm diamiter and 17 cms long.
They come in a pack of 5 or 6, I cut them in half.
Some people use sexing probes to assist feed, but I prefur the plastic needles,
so as not to damage teeth.

 

[JasonL]

I prefer a large plastic cable tie, has a thick end for pushing without splitting, and a thin end for the later stages.....and if all else fails and you run into trouble, you can zip it closed over the snakes neck and choke it to death....OK, forget the last part, but cable ties work well.

 

[Colin]

when I have had to resort to assist feeding I use a stainless steel crop needle with the ball on the end of it, to help push the pinkie down the hatch. But if your going to try assist feeding.. I'd suggest using a section of a rats tail instead of a pinkie. But assist feeding is used by me as a last resort, not as a general feeding technique.


Back to feeding.. I prefer to feed my hatchies at night when they are awake and moving around the tub. they are more likely to smash a food item when they awake and hunting than being woken up by being bashed in the head by a pinkie If some dont feed in this round.. I wait an hour or two and try them again the same night. most times they will feed on this second round rather than waiting another few days to re-try. I have all food items floating in warm water in the sink (and when needed change the water to keep temps up) I also find they feed better if you use a pair of plastic forceps to hold the rodent instead of using your fingers. most times they will strike at the warmth of your fingers if they are close by. Leave really stubborn eaters alone for several days and re-try after 5-7 days. DONT handle your hatchie constantly in the times that its not feeding, you are more than likely just stressing it out, and part of the problem.

 

[andyscott]

But assist feeding is used by me as a last resort, not as a general feeding technique..

Its been 8 weeks, and as stated some of the hatchlings are thin and weak.
It is time for the last resort. The hatchlings havnt feed at all in 8 weeks,
they need to get their strength up asap or die.

A steel crop neddle, cable tie, knitting neddle, the empty inside of a pen.
It dosnt matter what she uses Colin, they need food and its time to help them eat.
You have had many years of practice and refine you technequie.
This is her 1st clutch and assist feeding at this stage is the only answer.

 

[No-two]

Give them small meals if they're looking thin, if you give it a large meal it'll use all the energy it has left to digest and it may not be enough if the meals big. I'm with jason on this one, who likes putting up with picky snakes, I force feed after about a month of no interest, then offer live next feed and so on. I had about 5 or 6 this year alone that got forced one week, fed live next week, the thawed the week after.

 

[Vixen]

Ive had the same troubles with two of my port mac hatchlings. Its been about 7 weeks since they hatched, had their first shed at the usual time along with the other hatchlings, but refuse to eat. 15 / 17 are eating perfectly so its nothing environmental.

A friend came over and force fed them about a week ago on rat tails, so its nearing the time I should try to feed them again. I tried warm thawed fuzzies last night, on tweezers but they still werent interested - left them in overnight as well but nothing.

Should I offer live instead? I have offered live in the past but this was before they were force fed. Or try defrosted again but perhaps scent them with chicken stock? The stock is the one thing I havent tried as yet.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I have hatchlings that took food for the firt time today since christmas. There are still some that have not eaten. They will go in their own time, Patience! If I must I sometimes pop a mousetail down their throats, only if i must. Most of the time they go themselves. I agree with the hopper mouse technique. There is something about a hopper mouse that a hatchling carpet python cant resist.

 

[Colin]

It dosnt matter what she uses Colin, they need food and its time to help them eat

well yeah it does matter actually.. have you ever performed assist feeding yourself andy? and what she does use should be smooth with no edges to cut or cause a problem. Assist feeding can turn out bad in some instances especiially with a struggling snake and determined vice like fingers of an upset newbiw and fragile neck bones. Ever seen one of those snakes that has its head twisted and bones set in this deformed looking way. Its probably an assist feed gone wrong from a newbie. they can be very rough with a hatchies neck when they struggle.. some almost slam the "damn nuiscance snake" in an overly aggressive way through frustration

I would suggest that she let someone who has actually assist fed a few snakes show her how to do it. I would only use it if I felt the animal was losing too much condition and gowing backwards. otherwise I'd prefer to try the hatchie on a small pinky mouse which usually they taken even by fussy eaters.. as soon as the pink is down.. I offer a larger fuzzie which this time.. is usually accepted and eaten. If I had tried the larger fuzzie first, probably would have eaten zip. and eventually lead to a panic situation. so when finnicky try them on a pinkie that is probably too small for a genuine meal. but readily eaten. and then tease larger prey into them as time permits.


And crop feeding :shock: should never be attempted by someone without actual experience from a very experienced keeper who has actually used a crop needle. Personally I think crop feeding is best left for vets and not for inexperienced trial and error attempts.

Someone my girlfriend works with and that has basically no experience with snakes at all.. was advised by an idiot associated with this major breeding facility to use crop feeding needle to feed their stimmie that had missed a few feeds :shock: now thats asking for trouble in my book. You can imagine my horror when emailed by this bloke telling me his great "mate" that advised him to use a crop needle to feed a perfectly ok stimmie that had just gone off the boil for a bit was totally inappropriate and just really typical of lunatic advise that seems to come from this bloke that I've heard from panicked owners. most hatchies will feed when left alone for a while and kept at right temps. and if the rodent is heated and offered in an intelligent way.. will usually be taken and eaten despite the problems that these people have with their hatchie and being fed. but what do you expect from this newbie telemarketer. when he gets a problem he just googles the question and gets a cross section of replies.

when this bloke relaxed and left the stimmie alone without constant handling it.. it found a secure hide on the heat and when it started moving around the tub late that night.. it fed for me without one problem. and actually had two fuzzies that meaL. easy peasy :lol:

help me!!!!! pleeeeaseeeee!!! my undersized [teeny weeny locale] stimmie has not fed for a few weeks :shock: PANIC STATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm gunna force food down its stubborn neck if I have to break it and shove filler down its now bent neck.

Leave the stimmies alone for the week.. they DONT need or want cuddles or this nonsense.. and after being left alone, now has an interest to feed if fed at an appropriate time with a little skill. As I said 10pm to 1am is a typical jungle feeding session.

 

[CodeRed]

well said Colin. even force feeding rat or mouse tails to small stimmies requires quite a bit of care and should never be done by the inexperienced. Same with crop needles and hatchies. If you havent been shown properly how to do it then DONT do it. How-to guides from the internet are not a replacement for being taught first hand..

Force feeding should be the very last option IMO as most cases of hatchies not eating can be solved by correcting the husbandry and feeding technique.

 

[KaneMortlock]

Careful how long you let it go. I had at least one die on me this year that wasn't eating. I was thinking similar, I'll just try this and that. Looked fine one night. Next morning dead. I should have force fed. You can either buy a pinkie pump, put pinkies in the blender and do it yourself, try mice tails (you insert half way down and hope hatchie takes the rest), or take to vet.

But pick one and do it. Don't procrastinate. If nothing is working. Get them force fed.

Kane.

 

[andyscott]

well yeah it does matter actually.. have you ever performed assist feeding yourself andy? quote]


LMFAO, um yes Colin I have. More than once or twice .
When I started there was no internet, no AP&S, books were limited and you learned from your own mistakes. Guess what, I never hurt or lost a hatchling through assist feeding.

Colin, If you read her posts, the hatchlings are already showing signs of emaciation.
An emaciated snake, will never start feeding by itself, its too weak.
Once they start fading away, Assist feeding is the only thing between life and death.
They NEED regular small feeds to get their condition up before getting them to start feeding by themselves.

Yes I agree with what you have said, when it comes to healthy strong hatchlings.
However we are talking about, and trying to save the life of 4 emaciated Coastals that havnt even had their 1st shed in 8 weeks of life.
This makes me think that there wasnt enough yolk in the egg for them to absorb.
This caused them not to be strong enough or grow big enough to have their 1st shed.
When this is happening its a downward spiral, get a few feeds into them, get their strength up, then worry about getting them to feed by themselves.

 

[JasonL]

As mentioned, I have no problems force feeding snakes, have done it many, many times to both pythons and small elapids, BUT... I would not recommend someone who is hesitant about the issue to try it. I was never shown, and didn't need to be, your either a confident person or your not, if your not, don't try it.

 

[Chris89]

I found that when I couldn't get my hatchling Stimson pythons to feed, I tried a method that was suggested to me and it worked! Basically all you do is:

Get a pill box and place the snake inside with a pink mouse, then close the pill box and place the pill box back in the enclosure (in the cool end, you don't want to cook the snake!) leave them be for a minimum of an hour and then check, if they haven't eaten then leave them for a couple of hours or even over night. I managed to get mine feeding with this method - now they're feeding off tweezers

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

8 weeks is a bit long to wait before assist feeding but Id start now.

Get a very small, soft plastic knitting neddle.
Slide it into the hatchlings mouth (while holding it head of course)
Once the neddle is in, gently turn it side ways, and the hatchling will open its mouth.
Put pinky into its mouth and slide out neddle from side. then slowly work pinky into mouth and down the hatchlings neck, poking the pinky gently down with the knitting needle.

do you know what you are describing is force feeding, not assist feeding. there is a difference. you should try to assist feed before force feeding.

 

[Vixen]

Well I took my own advice seeing as noone replied and was successful. :lol: I tried him on a live hopper mouse instead of something smaller and that done the trick.

 

[Emmalicious]

hmmm just take them to a Vet and get some ideas?

 

[Chrisreptile]

I had a few coastals that werent to interested in pinkie rats, so after a couple of refusals, i tried a fuzzy mouse that i fresh killed about 10 seconds before i fed it to them, this got an instant response.
Now these guys are going strong.

 

[monix]

i was gonna give the hopper mice a go too... can anyone recommend where i can find in brisbane area?
just never noticed them for sale anywhere before..

and sorry.. i am not shoving something down their throat, i am terrified of hurting them.
if anything i will take to an expert if it gets to that. thanks anyway

and thanks for all the suggestions.. i am working my way through some! cheers!
will let you know how i go.

 

[KaneMortlock]

At 8 weeks (now 9?) with no food, depending upon how much yoke these absorbed, they could die any day now. So work through the suggestions fast and expect death if you don't take to vet any time now.

 

[monix]

well the little one (#2) finally ate last night again! hurrah!!
the others no go. they still look healthy tho... hopper mice anyone?