Mayhem
Well-Known Member
While Greg Maxwell is a great guide, he isnt God mate.
Green tree python handling.
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While Greg Maxwell is a great guide, he isnt God mate.
Serpentor
Active Member
No need to get defensive, I was just making sure you knew his stance on the position. I don't see where I put him on a deity pedestal, but he has been doing it for around 30 years, and has drawn from other experienced keeper's experiences as well as his own. So while not god, no, his opinion should be at least noted, which is all I asked of you
Mayhem
Well-Known Member
No need to get defensive, I was just making sure you knew his stance on the position. I don't see where I put him on a deity pedestal, but he has been doing it for around 30 years, and has drawn from other experienced keeper's experiences as well as his own. So while not god, no, his opinion should be at least noted, which is all I asked of you
Not being defensive mate, I just disagree with idea of not handling them due to being fragile and if you want to use his advice as the reason, well, I'm going to say otherwise
Mayhem
Well-Known Member
To follow up on my above post, I have to ask, does anyone actually know of a responsible GTP owner who has owned other snakes who has actually, genuinely, damaged their GTP due to normal, careful, handling? If so, speak up!
Because so far, all we seem to have is heresay and no actual examples.
Because so far, all we seem to have is heresay and no actual examples.
Serpentor
Active Member
As I said before, I'm sure you're careful, and it's your snake after all.
In regards to hearing about people damaging their GTPs, do you honestly believe someone who has broken their multi-thousand dollar animal's spine due to doing something that is advised against in one of the most prominent books out there will tell a forum about it? Let alone anyone?
In regards to hearing about people damaging their GTPs, do you honestly believe someone who has broken their multi-thousand dollar animal's spine due to doing something that is advised against in one of the most prominent books out there will tell a forum about it? Let alone anyone?
Mayhem
Well-Known Member
Well, until one does, then I think people need to understand that GTP's, while definately worth that little bit of extra care, are not going to fall apart or break on somone who takes care in their handleing.
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Serpentor
Active Member
I'd err on the side of caution. I'd bet on the statement being based on the early chondro keeping days when they didn't know any better, and also necropsies of dead neonates, and subsequent observation of spine fragility.
S
solar 17
Guest
Fragile gtp's
i can only imagine in some sub tropic / tropical low hanging branch a young chondro latching onto its intended meal stuggling to the end hanging on grimly by its prehensile tail .....this is not the scene of one of natures critters being so fragile they couldn't be handled by a caring herper in fear of damaging its spine....sure take every precaution but gee whiz we handle ours all the time and no probs in fact being fed a pinkie mouse every [6] days our hatchies are now just on [6] months of age and have put on 250-300 % of their birth weight and they climb and carry on like my bredli hatchies so not bad for a fragile snake that supposedly shouldn't be handled....i think "serpentor"got it dead right in post #27 of this thread we have come a long way into understanding this species and in the process debunked some of the earlier myths....cheers solar 17 [baden]
i can only imagine in some sub tropic / tropical low hanging branch a young chondro latching onto its intended meal stuggling to the end hanging on grimly by its prehensile tail .....this is not the scene of one of natures critters being so fragile they couldn't be handled by a caring herper in fear of damaging its spine....sure take every precaution but gee whiz we handle ours all the time and no probs in fact being fed a pinkie mouse every [6] days our hatchies are now just on [6] months of age and have put on 250-300 % of their birth weight and they climb and carry on like my bredli hatchies so not bad for a fragile snake that supposedly shouldn't be handled....i think "serpentor"got it dead right in post #27 of this thread we have come a long way into understanding this species and in the process debunked some of the earlier myths....cheers solar 17 [baden]
peterjohnson64
Very Well-Known Member
Well it has been done. I have an adult male with a fully kinked tail that is unable to mate because of it. We are not sure as to what caused this but it was most likely probing or handling as a youngster.
And why does everyone on this forum always hail back to nature and say that they survive in nature so they should be able to handle the same thing in captivity. Well that is just so true if you want to have the same chances of the animal surviving in captivity as it does in nature - like about half of one percent. If you want to improve the chances of the animal surviving in captivity you need to give it different conditions.
I made some comments on the Name Tags thread and I merely stick by them.
And why does everyone on this forum always hail back to nature and say that they survive in nature so they should be able to handle the same thing in captivity. Well that is just so true if you want to have the same chances of the animal surviving in captivity as it does in nature - like about half of one percent. If you want to improve the chances of the animal surviving in captivity you need to give it different conditions.
I made some comments on the Name Tags thread and I merely stick by them.
Mayhem
Well-Known Member
Probing young GTP's is somthing I and most of us would agree is going to be the cause of damage.
i agree with mayhem here, these are snakes who have been alive for thousands of years, even though i dont handle mine much i fail to see how a predator like a snake can be so fragile that you cant let it slither across your hand.
Serpentor
Active Member
Just in case anybody missed it.
Please don't use the 'in the wild argument'. It simply isn't valid for responsible keepers. I don't see any of you owning up to live feeding.
melgalea
Very Well-Known Member
Nagraj
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Allowing a snake to wander over your hands and not feeding live prey are two completely different issues and neither should be used to justify or condemn the other. Thats what's called a straw man argument.
Serpentor
Active Member
It may well be, but I'm just trying to nip it in the bud before the slippery slope.
Such a small proportion of snakes survive, probably mostly due to food availability, willingness to feed, and the fact that live food can turn round and bite too....but hanging by the tail and holding a food item (which probably wouldn't be too big for it, because it would most likely avoid larger items) compared to the amount of force that can be accidentally delivered by human hands, especially if the snake decides to flip out, are two different things also.
Why are they so fragile? Help a novice out here. Are the "finer boned" or something to support the lighter weight needed considering their arboreal nature?
I find it surprising that any predator could be so fragile, especially one that is capable of swallowing items larger than their head!
I find it surprising that any predator could be so fragile, especially one that is capable of swallowing items larger than their head!
Serpentor
Active Member
They are quite small for Morelia, but perhaps what you've suggested is true also.
Problem with what you're saying about large food items is that it expects that sort of stress on its skeletal system, and applies it slowly, by swallowing slowly, and the way it contracts its muscles in a situation like that where it's under control, as opposed to flipping out and having a keeper jump, or get startled and move it too quickly.
patonthego
Well-Known Member
"fragile"
I'm with you GT steve, fed up hearing about the fragility of the gtp's a snake is a snake surely. Who can squash or harm a snake simply by holding it?? I am very gentle with mine and don;t sqeeze them in fact mhy coastal squeezes me quite often.
I'm with you GT steve, fed up hearing about the fragility of the gtp's a snake is a snake surely. Who can squash or harm a snake simply by holding it?? I am very gentle with mine and don;t sqeeze them in fact mhy coastal squeezes me quite often.
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