GTP thoughts

[BARRAMUNDI]

Nice analogy, I am sure breeding and maintaining these awesome pythons would have been great over the last number of years. From the photos I have seen and the people I have spoken too, you do this hobby proud with your knowledge and attention to detail in your husbandry.

 

[unique]

Ok.. coastals and jungles are seperated by a few K's
and they are differnt sub species.dna cant prove they
are ,but they are..why arnt PNG gtps and Aussies gtps
not differnt sub species ??

IMO an aussie gtp crossed with an PNG gtp is a hybrid.
i would never keep anything other then a pure aussie native gtp.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Ok.. coastals and jungles are seperated by a few K's
and they are differnt sub species.dna cant prove they
are ,but they are..

thats not very convincing

 

[mungus]

Farma
I certainly believe that Adrian's and Michael's are worth more than most. You do get a certain degree of confidence in health and history. They are worth more than exotic GTPS. Most exotic GTPS are only worth $1 000, with that taken into account Natives are worth $1 500 - $2 000. I feel that is a fair price and I feel that is the price that should maintain.

Sure the price has come down from the original figures, but like I said most of us dont see the long term return value in the current price, its a simple as that. (sorry, no offence meant to you Michael)

So, your running a business not a hobby..........??

 

[Serpentes]

So, your running a business not a hobby..........??

I would have interpreted it as "I'm in this for the money, and don't place an inherent value on snakes, just an instrumental value".

I'd pay big money for any snake I particularly desire from a personal standpoint. Please note that the following is simply a personal viewpoint and not intended to berate others.

If an albino python of any species was worth $5, I would not own one. I would not house one in captivity myself, unless it was unable to be re-homed, as I wholly consider albinism an unattractive mutant. I understand why certain people desire albinos, but simply, I am partial to neither their genetic nor phenotypic expression.

If rough-scaled pythons were still worth $5,000 I woud be interested in obtaining some when funds could provision it. I have a great interest in the species and I dearly look forward to keeping some myself again. I am fairly happy that I will not be paying $5,000 per snake! But I would if that was the price to pay for keeping a species of such fascinating ecology, morphology, biogeography and behaviour. This is just one of a plethora of species for which I would pay high prices.

The inherent value I place on a reptile species is not influenced by the instrumental (money) value others impose on that species. I don't treat reptiles as commodities. For example, there are members on this forum who have received quantities of instrumentally valuable snakes from me in the past, free of charge, just because they share the same inherent value ethic with me.

 

[Costa]

I would have interpreted it as "I'm in this for the money, and don't place an inherent value on snakes, just an instrumental value".

I'd pay big money for any snake I particularly desire from a personal standpoint. Please note that the following is simply a personal viewpoint and not intended to berate others.

If an albino python of any species was worth $5, I would not own one. I would not house one in captivity myself, unless it was unable to be re-homed, as I wholly consider albinism an unattractive mutant. I understand why certain people desire albinos, but simply, I am partial to neither their genetic nor phenotypic expression.

If rough-scaled pythons were still worth $5,000 I woud be interested in obtaining some when funds could provision it. I have a great interest in the species and I dearly look forward to keeping some myself again. I am fairly happy that I will not be paying $5,000 per snake! But I would if that was the price to pay for keeping a species of such fascinating ecology, morphology, biogeography and behaviour. This is just one of a plethora of species for which I would pay high prices.

The inherent value I place on a reptile species is not influenced by the instrumental (money) value others impose on that species. I don't treat reptiles as commodities. For example, there are members on this forum who have received quantities of instrumentally valuable snakes from me in the past, free of charge, just because they share the same inherent value ethic with me.

in it for the snakes and not for the money
a true passion in herps
i agree.

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

So, your running a business not a hobby..........??

Mungus
No not at all. I am a hobbiest, however as I stated earlier, most people when they invest big dollars in animals, say in excess of 5k, they want usually to recoup that money, usually with a bit of profit so they can upgrade to newer species.

Im not in it for the cash, but I dont like to throw my hard earned cash away. So I buy smart, and at the right time for the right money. I missed the boat on the early available Natives, so now its only a matter of time until they reach a dollar value that Im comfortable with.

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

I would have interpreted it as "I'm in this for the money, and don't place an inherent value on snakes, just an instrumental value".

I'd pay big money for any snake I particularly desire from a personal standpoint. Please note that the following is simply a personal viewpoint and not intended to berate others.

If an albino python of any species was worth $5, I would not own one. I would not house one in captivity myself, unless it was unable to be re-homed, as I wholly consider albinism an unattractive mutant. I understand why certain people desire albinos, but simply, I am partial to neither their genetic nor phenotypic expression.

If rough-scaled pythons were still worth $5,000 I woud be interested in obtaining some when funds could provision it. I have a great interest in the species and I dearly look forward to keeping some myself again. I am fairly happy that I will not be paying $5,000 per snake! But I would if that was the price to pay for keeping a species of such fascinating ecology, morphology, biogeography and behaviour. This is just one of a plethora of species for which I would pay high prices.

The inherent value I place on a reptile species is not influenced by the instrumental (money) value others impose on that species. I don't treat reptiles as commodities. For example, there are members on this forum who have received quantities of instrumentally valuable snakes from me in the past, free of charge, just because they share the same inherent value ethic with me.

Sepentes
I assume the first line of this quote is directed at me.
Your interpretation is off the mark, I maintain numerous species, most of which are worthless, but they fascinate me, they are found from unique eco systems and most are in my collection because they are simply fun to keep and maintain.
My comments in response to Waterrat and Natives is totally based on me spending my hard earned wages. That spending needs to be smart and when I spend big I need to recoup that money, otherwise Im divorced and homeless.

Im not made of money and Im not prepared to spend big money for any snake I particulary desire from a personal standpoint.

 

[herpkeeper]

It doesn't take a genius to work out those who are in it for the money and those who have a real passion !
just take a look at some of those greedy private breeder's who breed copius amounts of animals, do they have the best interest of the hobby in mind or their wallets ? In it for the animals - yer right ! & the other one plays jingle bells.........

 

[Kurto]

It doesn't take a genius to work out those who are in it for the money and those who have a real passion !
just take a look at some of those greedy private breeder's who breed copius amounts of animals, do they have the best interest of the hobby in mind or their wallets ? In it for the animals - yer right ! & the other one plays jingle bells.........

So one can't have passion and try to make a profit as well?

 

[Waterrat]

It doesn't take a genius to work out those who are in it for the money and those who have a real passion !
just take a look at some of those greedy private breeder's who breed copius amounts of animals, do they have the best interest of the hobby in mind or their wallets ? In it for the animals - yer right ! & the other one plays jingle bells.........

That is a pretty bitter statement Herpkeeper. Are you generally a happy person?
You seem to condemn the "private breeder" but the pros who produce even higher amounts of animals are alright? What's the difference? Why can one make money the other not? Breeding and keeping thics are not necessarily express in poverty.

 

[Serpentes]

Your interpretation is off the mark, I maintain numerous species, most of which are worthless, but they fascinate me, they are found from unique eco systems and most are in my collection because they are simply fun to keep and maintain.

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I am aware of people who breed snakes in large number as some sort of ego-gratifying financial adventure, sometimes with consequences inimical to the animals welfare. I sure you understand my dislike of such exploitative husbandry! Making money from captive snakes is just fine, so long as money is not the principle motivation for keeping snakes in cages. Honestly, I wish I was making some money from breeding anything this season, I'm broke

 

[herpkeeper]

I don't see that as a overly bitter statement Micheal, it's called reality !

Kurto, I make profit off my animals, I could be making a whole lot more but I don't want to be looked at as one of those who flood the market with no thought towards sustainability

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I am aware of people who breed snakes in large number as some sort of ego-gratifying financial adventure, sometimes with consequences inimical to the animals welfare. I sure you understand my dislike of such exploitative husbandry! Making money from captive snakes is just fine, so long as money is not the principle motivation for keeping snakes in cages. Honestly, I wish I was making some money from breeding anything this season, I'm broke

All good mate. Sounds like you need a sugar mumma who can help you out.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't see that as a overly bitter statement Micheal, it's called reality !

It's a skewed outlook on reality mate, some of us maintained large collections for decades at significant cost and no returns whatsoever because reptiles were not worth money then. I didn't change that - the hobby we have today (and you are part of it) did!
Should I be the dinosaur and give my snakes away or sell them for what some think is fair price? I am proud of my ethics and I contribute to the herp community in form of publishing and sharing all I know. Do I have to be poor as well?

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

Anyway lets get back on topic here.

I recall Michael stating that he has heard a lot of talk of lots of GTPs being bred, as he already said its January, where are they all. Tim obviously replied and said he will have them available and cheaper than last year. Does anyone else have any they know that will be available.
Has anyone managed to breed any from the "Pails" line from a few years back, a few of my mates got some from this line and these animals have seemed to retain alot of yellow in the rear half of their body. Should be some cracker offspring from these around by now.

 

[Serpentes]

...I contribute to the herp community in form of publishing and sharing all I know. Do I have to be poor as well?

Only if you are involved in university-based research :lol:

 

[herpkeeper]

That "skewed" statement was aimed at the money driven egotistical types that have invaded the hobby in recent years, not you Micheal.

cheers HK.

 

[waruikazi]

It's a skewed outlook on reality mate, some of us maintained large collections for decades at significant cost and no returns whatsoever because reptiles were not worth money then. I didn't change that - the hobby we have today (and you are part of it) did!
Should I be the dinosaur and give my snakes away or sell them for what some think is fair price? I am proud of my ethics and I contribute to the herp community in form of publishing and sharing all I know. Do I have to be poor as well?

Then you're obviously not in it for the money and aren't the people that the original comment was aimed at.

 

[DanN]

99.9% of all Australian green python have a white vertebral line. It is 50/50 if the line is broken or unbroken and is most prominant in the posteroir of the animal, tapering towards the head.

Some very old individuals have a blue/purple line, however this is rare. Young animals which have recently undergone OCC have few vertebral spots which are often yellow (these become a solid line as the animal matures).

As mentioned earlier in the thread, juvenile aussies often have a strong white vertebral stripe becoming more prominant with age.

Australian animals all have varying degrees of blue.

When an animal scars, the scar beomes blue. Young greens have blue markings that were red rosettes when the individual was a juvenile.

Many females which, I presume, have produced a clutch that season have large amounts of blue on the flanks and especiialy on the underside of the head and often look more blue than green. The blue is very pale, but they are still green snakes. It is unknown to what extent they retain this blue.

Blue colouring appears to be a nutrient deficiency and hormonal. Mny malnourished animals are bright blue with green heads and tails, as the reamining nutrients are stored in the extremeties. It is likely that some part of the diet is lacking and they can no longer produce the yellow pigment to make green, therefore the animal is blue?

The underbelly of juvenile snakes is always white and only becomes yellow on older animals. Yellow begins in the anteriorventral surface and very old animals all have bright yellow,blue and white bellies near the tail.

Having said all this, there are always variations, so take it all with a grain of salt, however these are certainly the vast majority oif cases.

This is not to say that 'colour' is in any way a distingusher of ''''race''' - every population of green python can have huge variation so you could never be 100% sure sure of local unless you nab it yourself.

Hope this helps,
Dan