INTERGRADES - Your Thoughts
Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:
- Status
waruikazi
Legendary
You are right they are classed as separate "Breeds" not species or sub-species. They are still considered the same species and therefore not a hybrid. They are a cross, nothing more nothing less.
If you don't beleive me look it up.
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
For the zillionth time to those who don't seem to understand:
"As for dogs of two breeds not being Hybrids please explain how they aren't"
ALL domestic dogs are the same SPECIES... A poodle, a labrador, a labradoodle, a great dane, wolf hound... ALL are Canis familiaris. So therefore crossing a POODLE and a BORDER COLLIE (both C. familiaris) is not a hybrid and therefore cannot be compared to a hybrid python.
If you wanted a hybrid dog, you would cross something like C. familiaris with C. lupus (wolf). These are two different species and therefore would produce a 'hybrid' (assuming they can infact interbreed)...
As for the '____doodles'.. They were originally created to let people with dog allergies own dogs, and that's great and I'm all for it, but everyone can agree, I think, that they got way out of hand!
Another thing... People refer to hybrids/intergrades/crosses (or whatever the hell) as 'freaks' yet if you want to buy an albino anything you need to shell out thousands of dollars. Food for thought.
"As for dogs of two breeds not being Hybrids please explain how they aren't"
ALL domestic dogs are the same SPECIES... A poodle, a labrador, a labradoodle, a great dane, wolf hound... ALL are Canis familiaris. So therefore crossing a POODLE and a BORDER COLLIE (both C. familiaris) is not a hybrid and therefore cannot be compared to a hybrid python.
If you wanted a hybrid dog, you would cross something like C. familiaris with C. lupus (wolf). These are two different species and therefore would produce a 'hybrid' (assuming they can infact interbreed)...
As for the '____doodles'.. They were originally created to let people with dog allergies own dogs, and that's great and I'm all for it, but everyone can agree, I think, that they got way out of hand!
Another thing... People refer to hybrids/intergrades/crosses (or whatever the hell) as 'freaks' yet if you want to buy an albino anything you need to shell out thousands of dollars. Food for thought.
Last edited:
J
junglepython2
Guest
An albino is neither a hybrid, intergrade or a cross
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
I was merely referring to the fact that an albino is a freak, and most people talking about hybirds/integrades/crosses are calling them freaks too.
WeLovePythons
Not so new Member
Carpets and Diamonds are the same species as well so how can they be considered diefferent? The point am trying to make is that if we get to caught up in the whole argument of Intergrades/hybrids we loose sight of the question of what people think of the end result...The way I read it is that he originally wanted to know what we thought of them ? I take it as meaning the offspring which is why I said for this thread they are the same. I know the scientific and literal diffenrence between the two but that's a whole other thread lol.
You are missing the point here. Genetically, Physically and visually they are the same. If by chance I went out on a harvesters licence and collected a Diamond an Carpet from the same local and they had by chance had wild offspring a season before I caught them would there offspring be different if they bred again after collection? Do you see what I mean? I understand what you mean about letting others know the difference in terminology but shouldn't we make that in anothewr thread? Or even have a area where we list herp terms andtheir meanings for the new keepers? Just a thought
WeLovePythons
Not so new Member
not if it occurs naturally lol
J
junglepython2
Guest
A diamond crossing with a coastal as such would occur extremely rarely in the wild, most intergrades come about from intergrades breeding with intergrades not a simple diamond coastal cross.
Greebo
Snakologist
Can't argue with a Mod
Just because I am a mod, doesn't mean I am right (even though I am in this case). People can argue against me as long as they don't resort to name calling or swearing. That's why it is called a discussion forum.
Welovepythons. Read my thread again, same goes to most of the others. A Diamond and a Carpet can never cross without the help of man. There is a small problem of a 400klm gap between the 2 species. If they do cross by human intervention, then they are a hybid sharing the same DNA markers of both parents. Intergrades are different and have their own DNA markers, which are different to hybrids. Greebo was indeed correct in what he stated.
Dragontail, I also suggest you read my thread again , because the way I read your comments you somehow still feel that both subspecies, as well as intergrades are found at Port Macquarie. Wrong, only intergrades are found in this area.
You can not compare natual species and sub species , such as snakes that we are talking about to man made designer species such as dogs. Most dog breeds are man made so please stop comparing them to natual species. They are 2 different subjects and show most people have no biological knowledge at all.
Even though I feel I fully explained what a intergrade is people are still using it with hybrid/cross. Just read above. You will find it a lot less confusing if you can never use those three words together. They have nothing in common whatsoever
Dragontail, I also suggest you read my thread again , because the way I read your comments you somehow still feel that both subspecies, as well as intergrades are found at Port Macquarie. Wrong, only intergrades are found in this area.
You can not compare natual species and sub species , such as snakes that we are talking about to man made designer species such as dogs. Most dog breeds are man made so please stop comparing them to natual species. They are 2 different subjects and show most people have no biological knowledge at all.
Even though I feel I fully explained what a intergrade is people are still using it with hybrid/cross. Just read above. You will find it a lot less confusing if you can never use those three words together. They have nothing in common whatsoever
buck
Well-Known Member
Carefull you don't bruise your forehead Bob.
jham66
Well-Known Member
As a personal preference, I like purebred. Do with most animals. But If well documented and with the right intentions, honesty etc.. Intergrades can have their place, just not at my place...
Inkslinger
Very Well-Known Member
Its is they are available in the states the "latest to have pet"
bit like Dingo crosses here
Intergrades are a purebred species that are simply the link between one sub-species and another. Intergrade young are born from intergrade parents and have been for thousands of years. People seem to think it is just a hybrid that occurs in the wild but in truth they have occured because of natural change in the species from one region to another and they have existed for thousands of years as a perfectly sustainable interbreeding population.
Australis
Almost Legendary
They are NOT visually the same. :shock:, have you seen either Carpets or Diamonds in the wild? I have seen a good number of both, they look nothing alike.
Like others have suggested, get out there and see for yourself, you DONT get Carpets and Diamonds in the same area.
zard
Well-Known Member
well i think i will take Bobs word on it all as he is a well known reputable breeder and keeper and has been for many years, imo his knowledge is from in the field and education not just throwing comments out there because he sees it a certain way.
It is a pity that this site has lost so many of the other keepers like Bob but hardly suprising, i figure they grew tired of hitting their heads on that wall. I know there are others here and i am sorry if you feel i am taking away from your expertese, i dont mean to do that it is just i respect Bobs knowledge.
Good on you Bob for sticking around and trying to educate those whom want to learn.
Newbies (sorry bob im gunna drop you right in it here) if you do want a no BS difinitive answer to a question ask someone like Bob who actually knows what he is talking about.
IMO even the wiki has some questionable advice in it sadly due to the fact that some of the input is from opinion not knowledge.
anyway now i will back out of this thread and let you all continue to argue this extremly over discussed subject.
It is a pity that this site has lost so many of the other keepers like Bob but hardly suprising, i figure they grew tired of hitting their heads on that wall. I know there are others here and i am sorry if you feel i am taking away from your expertese, i dont mean to do that it is just i respect Bobs knowledge.
Good on you Bob for sticking around and trying to educate those whom want to learn.
Newbies (sorry bob im gunna drop you right in it here) if you do want a no BS difinitive answer to a question ask someone like Bob who actually knows what he is talking about.
IMO even the wiki has some questionable advice in it sadly due to the fact that some of the input is from opinion not knowledge.
anyway now i will back out of this thread and let you all continue to argue this extremly over discussed subject.
If you actually knew Jungle_Freak you would realise he probably knows a 100 times more than you about reptiles in general, this subject actually isn't open to interpretation at all it is very black and white.
Welovepythons
If I see them in the flesh I can normally tell them apart with ease . When you have seen as many as I have its not hard at all. Most long term keepers that I know can also tell with ease. And i am talking Hybrids versus Intergrades. So I still back Greebos statement
If I see them in the flesh I can normally tell them apart with ease . When you have seen as many as I have its not hard at all. Most long term keepers that I know can also tell with ease. And i am talking Hybrids versus Intergrades. So I still back Greebos statement
- Status
