Lest We Forget

[Moreliaman]

Im sure bucket is right, i bet there are ex-service men & women out there who have that exact opinion.

You mean where you live or in Australia?

All over the world, but i bet america more than others !!!
If called i would have refused service in the iraq war.

 

[soulweaver]

is the distaste ppl are talking about speculation? or is there some fact to it that can back-up claims?

morelia man are you referring more to the vietnam conflict, rather then say ww2? when talking about the yanks?

 

[Guest]

Yes anzac is not until tuesday, but our service men and women should be remembered all year round, not just focused upon for one day a year.

I totally agree SW if it wasn't for their sacrifice we would not enjoy the lifestyle that we do..

My father served in WW2 for Australia and my current girlfriend served in the Austraklian Navy in active duty in the middle east back in the early 1990's when that conflict began... and was proud to serve her country... and is proud to be an Australian..

If people don't like the way Australia is... then buy a ticket and get the hell out of our country.. we don't want the likes of you here anyway..

 

[Vat69]

Um, Spike14 how much war history have you done? There were no plans to invade Australia.
*Sorry to be a little off-topic but I thought that needed to be said.

Kokoda . . . .

Again, how much academic study have you done? I'm yet to be informed from a number of credible sources that there was an official plan for Japan to invade and inhabit Australia.

 

[Spike14]

dude, it was all over the news with the guy that told the kokoda story to make the official movie , japs wanted to invaid northern australia

 

[Vat69]

Ok, movies aren't historical documents. They are always inacurate. Directors are not historians.*deletes rest of rant* I'm a history major at uni. I've been over the wars more than once. I can't help myself but get anal. :lol:
I'll leave it there :lol: :roll:

 

[Spike14]

ok get ur point but 1 last thing to say, the directo of the movie got it all from one of the men that faught on kokoda . . so most if it is mostlikely , yes i did say most, i havent seen the movie ..

 

[soulweaver]

colin, lol that is going to open a can of worms.

but i agree, if the values that we as Australians have built are not the values in which you hold, then wouldn't it make sense to live in a country that you are happy with?

If you talk about service men not being happy when they returned to australia after ww1, well that is a hard issue to debate, as the nation was still being built, and we were still young, as well as federation.

as for ww2, this changed a young nation, this was a time when women and men were more involved during war times. Either on the front, or in factorys working for the war effort. This shaped nations as women where now seen in a different light, but i still don't see the 2nd world war as being something men and women wouldn't be proud of to come back too.

but what the issue rasied was, the way things are seen today. They way things have moved, and the direction, or path they have taken. If there is disgust, i think it would of stemmed from the vets returning from vietnam. A serivce which a lot were conscripted to, and a welcome home which is actually more disgusting then anything.

This attitude has adapted itself to everything now, not in the sense that service women and men are spat on returning from the gulf, but in a way where the romance of 'seeing the world' and fighting for ones honour whilst serving your country, has dwindled, and any form of conflict should be avoided.

this is not saying that ww2 and ww1 people didn't want to see an end to conflict, its just the ideals behind conflict where shaped into a different light.

i just don't think it is as black and white as stated thats all.

 

[peterescue]

The plan at that stage(invasion 0f Sth Eastern Papua was to islolate Australia. SE Asia had been securedby the japanesse and securing the pennisular would have given them a base for the Sth Pacific with their supply lines secure from Japan to PNG. What steps would have been taken after that are open to discussion but with airstips secured in Port Moresby bombing of Brisbane and Sydney would have been able to take place. Invasion would more than likely followed.
It should also be pointed out that nobody new that the Japanese would stop at Port Moresby.

 

[soulweaver]

Vat69, i agree with you about there was no offical plan. Although my study over the last 14 years as mainly been world war one, and the only real battle i have gone into great depth during ww2 is the battle for russia, i can understand what spike means.

Japan did set foot on Australian shores, and because of this picture is painted that they tried to invade Australia.

Spike, the bombings at darwin,a nd the conflicts north where more aimed at the U.S. Japnas enter into the war was over trade agreements with the U.S, and one there big ideas was to fight the U.S and draw up a peace treaty that got them their trade agreement back.

but like i said, i can understand where you are coming from, and why this idea painted in Australians minds. If there is information to support it though, i would be very interersted to see.

 

[Moreliaman]

Soulweaver, I wouldn’t call it speculation....ask some ex-service soldiers,...........Not sure if you can place the Vietnamese conflict in the same category as ww2 , after all that was a war that America intervened in (as they usually do.....america more than others yes, because they seem to enjoy invading small countries more than others...esp when they need oil !).
Perhaps we should also remember the german & japanese service men & women who lost their lives too.

 

[Spike14]

got ya :wink:

 

[NinaPeas]

We should remember ALL the lives that have been lost in wars! Not only the serving men and women, but all the innocent victims and children around the world.

ANZAC day isn't only about remembering Australian service men and women...

 

[Retic]

Indeed it isn't, by definition it is about remembering servicemen and women from New Zealand as well.

ANZAC day isn't only about remembering Australian service men and women...

 

[Moreliaman]

errmm.....what exactly does ANZAC stand for then ??.....Australia...new zeland,...im guessing thats the first bit ! whats the rest
??
But im with the same view as nina...if your going to pay respect to people who died during war then you pay your respects to every person, regardless of race or religion. And im sure not everyone wanted to fight....faced with the choice of going to the front line to fight or being shot on the spot if you refused !!

 

[NinaPeas]

And all the orphaned children from Vietnam (sorry, know a bit about this one, more than the rest).

A lot of the troops (from everywhere) had relations with many of the vietnemese women, who all fell pregnant but couldn't afford to look after the babies, so were abandoned. There are just so many victims of war

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

errmm.....what exactly does ANZAC stand for then ??.....Australia...new zeland,...im guessing thats the first bit ! whats the rest

literaly it means an autralian or nz soldier i spose,
it stands for 'australia and new zealand army corps'
LEST WE FORGET

 

[Guest]

moreliaman (UK) wrote: after all that was a war that America intervened in (as they usually do.....america more than others yes, because they seem to enjoy invading small countries more than others

Not as much as England :wink: Wasn't England one of the biggest war mongering races on the planet? invading countless smaller nations and islands "in the name of the british commonwealth" much more so than America... more in line with Hitler in my opinion... and did'nt the English through their mismanagement end up sending our troops to Gallipolli to be slaughtered? Didn't Hitler get a foothold in Europe to the point that it was difficult to stop him because of the spineless actions of what was his name? Chamberlain? and then WW2 started?

my last word on this thread is ANZAC day is for Australians and New Zealanders... and all people should show some respect to the fallen....

 

[Parko]

Since Japan has come up in this conversation thought people maybe interested to know Japan was also at Gallipoli, as our ALLIES though. They were our Allies in WW1 and played a role to help fight the Germans, they lost around 400 soldiers in WW1. After WW1 when they wished to march alongside the allies to show respect for their fallen soldiers they were refused, they were shown great disrespect and not seen fit to march alongside the white skinned allies. Relations soured from then on.... If you dont believe this do a little research and you may be surprised.

 

[soulweaver]

What is ANZAC? ANZAC means so much, on so many different levels. Like i stated earlier, WW1 was when Australia was finding itself as a nation. New to federation, and young compared to other countries. ANZAC does mean 'Australian and New Zealand Army Corp' but its much more then that. This was the first real battle that Australians had gone too since federation. Yes there was the boar war, but we were already there before 1901, so it wasn't quite the same.

Gallipoli created the Australian icon, it painted us forever into history, it helped shaped the nation and who we are today.

ANZAC is as Australian as the Sydney Harbour bridge, or the 'snags on the barbie'. Words can not describe what ANZAC means to a nation, but its images and its men and women who served it, should never be forgotten.

without lessons we never learn, and these men and women who paid the ultimate price, have taught us so much, and should never be forgotten.